Knives/daggers in the Twilight War

[B.T.]

In the last days I searched the forum for infos on knifes and daggers. And this was a little disapointing. We have threats on all kind of weapons. We even have threats, in which the board members can choose their most liked vehicle of the Twilight War. Lots of threats on all kinds of firearms, and more than one poll. But knifes No, not one single threat, solely dedicated to knifes/bayonets/daggers.

In wars of the past, certain knifes have become some kind of iconic item of that war. Take, for example, the Fairbain-Sykes-dagger of the British commandoes in WWII, or the Gerber Mk II and the USAAF-survival-knife M1963 from the Vietnam-era. And lets not forget about the KA-BAR of the US Marines and the kukhri of the Ghurkas, seen on many theatres worldwide in more than one conflict.

The character-generation-chapter of the T2k rules (at least in Ver.2.n) says, every soldier receives a bayonet as part of the basic load. I've changed this a little: Players, rolling up a Marine PC, may choose, if they want to have a Bayonet, or a KA-BAR. And as I've mentioned on several occasions, I give a German character in the Bundeswehr an ACK.

Talking about bayonets: There are so many different designs. A US M9 bayonet can be used as field-knife, exactly like the ubiquitous AK-bayonets or the British L3 A1. And these, like the ACK, can be used as wire cutter.
The more dagger-like bayonets (as example the US M7 bayonet) work as weapon, but they are not as good as field-knife. And older bayonets of the spike-type are completely worseless as knife.

I'd like to know, what you think about this. Is there a knife/bayonet/dagger, that may be this iconic knife of the Twilight War What kind of knife will be in service with some military unit How likely is it, to find some extra-ordinary knife on the battlefield How likely is it, that some knife will be fielded with US forces, like the "quartermaster-knifes" of WW II, omitting the bayonet How is this handeled in other countries

I think, a specific model could be very characteristic for certain NPCs, for example the former Westpoint-guy, now commanding one battalion of the 50th Armor Division, wearing the old Randall "All-purpose-fighter", that his Grandpa had with him in WW II and his Dad in the jungles of Vietnam. The knife of choice can put a highlight on the character.

So, any thoughts are appreciated.

[Mahatatain]

I think that, rather than a specific knife or bayonet, the Twilight War would see a reappearance of all kinds of small to medium sized melee weapons that can be carried as a back up to a firearm, in much the same way as the trench warfare of WWI prompted all kinds of trench knives, axes and clubs.

Sorry if that's not much help!

[headquarters]

Melee weapons

I agree with Matahain who stated that a resurgence of melee weapnry would take place . ( As well as improvised weapons lik eblackpowder mortars etc )

I kindly ask you to consider these few items

http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/DOX/Melee/

regarding melee weaponry.

Frozen salmon is a favourite of mine. Not to mention the plaque mounted Marlin.

[copeab]

You'd likely see blades similar in function to the 'Serb-cutter'.

[Mahatatain]

You'd likely see blades similar in function to the 'Serb-cutter'.

Horrible - but I think that you're right!

[Targan]

You'd likely see blades similar in function to the 'Serb-cutter'.

But that sort of weapon is specifically for the purpose of slaughtering large numbers of prisoners. If a character in a T2K has one of those, it is a grim sort of a campaign indeed.

[pmulcahy11b]

But that sort of weapon is specifically for the purpose of slaughtering large numbers of prisoners. If a character in a T2K has one of those, it is a grim sort of a campaign indeed.

It's a grim game, when you really think about it.

[pmulcahy11b]

I agree with Matahain who stated that a resurgence of melee weapnry would take place . ( As well as improvised weapons lik eblackpowder mortars etc )

I kindly ask you to consider these few items

http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/DOX/Melee/

regarding melee weaponry.

Frozen salmon is a favourite of mine. Not to mention the plaque mounted Marlin.

And I command you to cut down a tree with a herring!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

But that sort of weapon is specifically for the purpose of slaughtering large numbers of prisoners. If a character in a T2K has one of those, it is a grim sort of a campaign indeed.

Targan, Targan, Targan...
Having read of the exploits of Major Po and his method of census collecting I believe your own campaign was pretty damned grim!

[pmulcahy11b]

The real problem with putting various blades in T2K is that, aside from role-playing and sometimes weight, the rules only allow for minor differences between blades as far as damage and effects go.

[headquarters]

agreed

The real problem with putting various blades in T2K is that, aside from role-playing and sometimes weight, the rules only allow for minor differences between blades as far as damage and effects go.

I heartily agree - the "primitive weapons" and melee weapons are decribed as somewhat ineffective in the rules

we made our own rules regarding this:

various melee weapons would potentially have "more attacks / phase " or
" higher ROF" if you will - depending on wielders skill of course. This also equals more blocks.

various melee weapons would have a lot more damage than what described in the book - i.e. a proper Japanese Reneissance Katana( bear over with me - you would be suprised at the number of good reproductions of these things that circulate) could -according to historic accounts - dismember a man at the thigh with one skilled blow. I beg to maintain that this constitutes a damage potential of D6 + strength in terms of game mechanics.

We made up all new melee rules to adress this

[Canadian Army]

I think you would see reproductions of the M3 Fighting Knife and the Gerber Mark II in hands of the military and in some civilian hands too. You would see lots of KA-BARs with them being around since 1942. On the Bayonet side you would probably see the M1 Bayonet, M5 Bayonet, M6 Bayonet, M7 Bayonet, and various M9 Bayonet Copies. You would also see edge weapons like the Tomahawk on the military side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahaw...ry_application) and on the civilian side too. Reproduction samurai swords, Civil War Reproduction Swords and Reproduction Medieval Swords would also be in large numbers too. I have a NPC who is a Sons of Confederate Veterans leader and carries a Confederate Cavalry Officer's Sabre, I also have NPC who carries a Long sword and use it as his primary weapon.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Personally I don't think you would see many reproductions of various swords being made. Blacksmithing is almost a lost skill and swordsmithing is a high art compared to blacksmithing - there would be very, very few people left capable of producing a good basic, no-frills sword and I would argue that there would be close to none who could make a reproduction of some of the swords mentioned.

Instead I think you'd see people trying out all those soft metal replica swords from the militaria shops and finding that they are totally useless and then looting whatever museums they could for genuine swords. For those who miss out, they'd resort to shaping either stabbing swords or heavy chopping blades like machetes out of such material as the steel plate used for ships or from steel girders and suchlike.

A basic sword or hatchet cut from a steel girder is crude but easy to make, knowing enough metallurgy to find/refine/use the right material to then cast a proper sword is a whole level of difficulty above what 95% of people in the modern world can do.

[Legbreaker]

Apparently suspension leaf springs are good steel for blades, although the curve could be problematic for more than knives.
You might even be better off using the leaves to make crossbows and small ballista.

[ArmySGT.]

Not one Paul Hogan impression to be seen........... anywhere.