More stupid U.S. Marines

[waiting4something]

I was hoping to keep this discussion going in a constructive direction but this is starting to get silly. WFS, your posts are starting to smack of Holocaust Denial. You are welcome to share your dissenting opinions here, but the Holocaust and wider Nazi attrocities and the participation of SS troops in both are backed by mountains- literally mountains- of evidence.

Let's get real and address this topic in a mature, responsible way, or this thread will be shut down.

Where did I say the Holocaust didn't happen Sure it happened and there was personel from the SS formations involved, but that doesn't not make everyone or everything dealing with the SS about the Holocaust. Yes this guy was/is a Holocaust extremist. He eats, sleeps, and shits Holocaust. That is my point. I don't subscribe to the "its ok for these guys to do this, but not these guys over here" camp. Waffen SS were combat troops. It's the media that has lumped them all in the same block cheese and we have swallowed that misconception time and time again.

[Fusilier]

I got that it was a joke. Just one in bad taste, and rife with logical fallacies that screamed to be pointed out.

Well that's just too bad, because I thought it was funny, irregardless of the poor logic - which was the point of the humor.

[waiting4something]

I'm not going to rehash the arguments already made by posters who can and have done so more eloquently than I can.

but supposedly the runic SS logo has been in use by USMC scout snipers for some time now, have there never been any USMC scout snipers of Jewish descent

Yes, I remember one from the 7th he was I guess a bad ass- a arrogant dickhead, but they said he was a machine. I never saw a black Marine in STA platoon, but I'm sure there is one out there. Asian I seen and latino too. The Marine Corps in general is white and latino heavy for whatever reason. The sig runes have nothing to do with racist beliefs for these men. It's more a bad ass thing. A killer elite if you will. Snipers install fear and apparently so does sig runes.

[Targan]

Snipers install fear and apparently so does sig runes.

Really For me the SS runes instill revulsion, not fear.

[Raellus]

WTF, you and I might know what the Waffen SS was, and how they were distinct than the SS that ran the death camps, but the general public does not. Symbols often transcend their origins and, for better or for worse, the SS lightening bolt runes are inseparably linked to the Holocaust, mass murder, and genocide. If you don't understand this, or refuse to accept it, then there's no more that anyone here can say that will convice you of the foolishness and bad taste (...at best; rank racism/anti-semitism at worst) shown by these Marines who chose to use the SS runes as their unofficial symbol.

To those who keep asserting that the Marine scout snipers have been using this symbol "for years", once again, what are you basing this on

[Legbreaker]

It's the media that has lumped them all in the same block cheese and we have swallowed that misconception time and time again.

Maybe it is a misconception, but it's the way the vast majority of the population of this planet we all live on perceive it to be. The true reality has little to do with it.

And because of that perception, the symbols associated with the Nazi regime MUST be treated carefully and NOT applied to units, entities and situations that don't want to be lumped into the same group of evil.

Anyone who can't, or refuses to see the truth of the situation is just asking for trouble.

[waiting4something]

Maybe it is a misconception, but it's the way the vast majority of the population of this planet we all live on perceive it to be. The true reality has little to do with it.

And because of that perception, the symbols associated with the Nazi regime MUST be treated carefully and NOT applied to units, entities and situations that don't want to be lumped into the same group of evil.

Anyone who can't, or refuses to see the truth of the situation is just asking for trouble.

Well, then the world needs to learn the truth, instead of jump on the bandwagon of misconcept. It could also be said for people that dispell the Holocaust. If it wasn't for self thought and studying we still think the colonization was a cute story with John Smith banging Pocahontas and Pilgrims and Indians eating a Thanksgiving turkey. If people keep drinking the coolade it will lead nowhere but down.

[waiting4something]

WTF, you and I might know what the Waffen SS was, and how they were distinct than the SS that ran the death camps, but the general public does not. Symbols often transcend their origins and, for better or for worse, the SS lightening bolt runes are inseparably linked to the Holocaust, mass murder, and genocide. If you don't understand this, or refuse to accept it, then there's no more that anyone here can say that will convice you of the foolishness and bad taste (...at best; rank racism/anti-semitism at worst) shown by these Marines who chose to use the SS runes as their unofficial symbol.

To those who keep asserting that the Marine scout snipers have been using this symbol "for years", once again, what are you basing this on

I know they used to use them before I was even in. A relative told me of this practice who was in during the early 90's. And this picture confirms that they still must be doing this years after my leaving the Marine Corps. So yeah, it's been there a while and no jews or other non ayrans have been gased or put into ovens. What has this do gooder whistle blower done............. nothing of value.

[waiting4something]

I bet alot of jihadists see western troops as racists or culturally insensitive to muslims. And I would bet a lot of western troops are with or without merit this very thing. But that doesn't mean everyone or symbol associated with this should be seen as such. The guilty by association belief doesn't always turn out so true. It just makes it easier for us to look at our on faces in mirror when we make snap decisions that need justification.

[Targan]

I know they used to use them before I was even in. A relative told me of this practice who was in during the early 90's. And this picture confirms that they still must be doing this years after my leaving the Marine Corps. So yeah, it's been there a while and no jews or other non ayrans have been gased or put into ovens.

Well if nothing else this discussion has shown that some people think the use of the SS rune symbol by US Marines is a matter of concern and others do not. For those of us who think it's a concern, hearing that the SS runes have been used by some Marines for many years doesn't make us think "oh, well, if they've been using it for years it's all ok then, forget my previous objections". For me all it does is make me wonder how the hell it was allowed to continue for so long without someone with some authority putting a stop to it.

What has this do gooder whistle blower done............. nothing of value.

I (and I suspect a majority of members here) would clearly disagree with you that nothing of value has come out of this situation being dealt with. I think putting a stop to the use of the SS runes by USMC scout/snipers is of great value. And the use of the term "do-gooder" as a pejorative term has confused me for a long time. I admit that I'm a bit of a lefty and definitely what most Americans would term a 'liberal' so maybe that's why I almost always find that the actions of those termed 'do-gooder' by those of a more right-wing bent tend to be actions that I agree with. The part that confuses me is why you'd use those two words as a derogatory term What is inherently wrong with trying to do good

I don't know anything about that Dr Beorn guy other than what's written in the article that copeab posted a link to but even if he is some kind of Holocaust obsessive, I didn't find anything wrong with the statements the article quotes him as making. He specifically said he isn't calling for heads to roll or court martials to be instigated for those in the photo. He said the strongest measures he'd like to see taken against them were non-judicial punishment and some remedial education. Help me out here, what am I missing Why are any of those statements unreasonable

[Legbreaker]

Well, then the world needs to learn the truth, instead of jump on the bandwagon of misconcept.

Yeah, good luck with that. Personally I'll content myself with not bashing my brains out on the brick wall of impossibility thanks.

I know they used to use them before I was even in. A relative told me of this practice who was in during the early 90's.

That just goes to show it's an ingrained problem that's been going on far, far too long in the shadows. It doesn't make it right.

By itself it's just a couple of squiggles and there's nothing wrong with that. BUT it's got one hell of a load of baggage which isn't going to diminish for another few generations. THAT's where the problem lies. What people associate with the symbols isn't going to change in our lifetimes and, has been said time and time again both here in this forum and in the world generally, allowances must be made accordingly.

[Ironside]

The difference between the Waffen SS and the Allgemeine (or General) SS is not clear cut. SS Division 3 Totenkopf was formed from concentration camp guards and its original commander Theodor Eicke was previously Head of the Concentration Camp Inspectorate. Also Waffen SS personel were sometimes posted to camp guard duty while convalesent or as a punishment.

[waiting4something]

Yeah, good luck with that. Personally I'll content myself with not bashing my brains out on the brick wall of impossibility thanks.


That just goes to show it's an ingrained problem that's been going on far, far too long in the shadows. It doesn't make it right.

By itself it's just a couple of squiggles and there's nothing wrong with that. BUT it's got one hell of a load of baggage which isn't going to diminish for another few generations. THAT's where the problem lies. What people associate with the symbols isn't going to change in our lifetimes and, has been said time and time again both here in this forum and in the world generally, allowances must be made accordingly.

Well I am not gonna disagree on the fact that people like to not consider the possiblity of what has been shoved down their throats their whole lives is not actually the truth. And yeah as long some guy like Mr. Do Gooder is around to preach his version of what is morally right, it won't go away.

[waiting4something]

Targan do you really believe that all that is gonna happen to these STA members is gonna be some reeducation "camp" or a NJP I don't think so. Now that this dope has put this out in the media the Marine Corps will try to distance themselves as fast and as far as they can. They will fucking derail these guys. This clown that that ratted them out knows this too. He may try to look like he's such a noble hereo, but he is just a wolf in sheeps clothing none the less. And NJP's really aren't a good thing in record book. It's not like it's just parking ticket. Good intentions hhhhmmmmmm. Good intentions are what the road to hell is paved with.

[waiting4something]

The difference between the Waffen SS and the Allgemeine (or General) SS is not clear cut. SS Division 3 Totenkopf was formed from concentration camp guards and its original commander Theodor Eicke was previously Head of the Concentration Camp Inspectorate. Also Waffen SS personel were sometimes posted to camp guard duty while convalesent or as a punishment.

I will not dispute that Waffen SS members at Camps. They were some, but that no way makes it accurate to make the entire Waffen SS as mad man hell bent immoral practices, like so many people believe.