Falkland Islands

[Schone23666]

It seems the Falklands are in the news yet again, after all this time. Anyone's who's been following has probably noticed the war of words (so far) between the UK and Argentina over this set of islands.

I guess this raises the question, in the Twilight 2000 world, would Argentina have made a second go at the Falklands While there's certainly the matter of pride (or hurt pride) on both sides of the aisle, I would suspect one reason Argentina is making a fuss over the Falklands now (besides both the timing of various events, the anniversary, and the bump Kirchner is getting in the polls) is the potential presence of oil and natural gas deposits in the area, along with the local fishing grounds. Both are going to be pretty important in a post T2K world, and I can't see either Argentina, the UK or any other country ignoring that. Last I read, there is at least one American oil company along with several UK oil companies now exploring/drilling the region, much to Argentina's chagrin.

This also raises another issue...how much capability did Argentina have at the time in T2k And how much of a capability do they have now in real life militarily

[Legbreaker]

I can recall seeing somewhere that before Chile and Argentina got into it against each other, Argentina did in fact invade the Falklands again, but were forced out to defend on the mainland.
The UK were in no position to stop them coming and didn't have a lot to do with seeing them off again either (except perhaps sending a few harsh words their way).

I can't recall where I saw it though, but I'm convinced it's canon (V2.x anyway).

[waiting4something]

Yes! This I was wondering this too. The Falklands was like the U.S.A.'S Grenada. Over in New YORK minute with the Cold War, 1980's mentality, and cool pre rail gun weapons.

[Legbreaker]

The difference being that the Falklands actually were invaded by an unwelcome foreign power and it was up to the UK to expel them.
In Grenada, the US were the invaders and their actions were condemned by the UN.
The similarities were that both were over in a relatively short space of time and the assaulting force (UK and US) were technolgically and militarily far superior to those they faced, but the same could really be said of the Nazi invasion of Poland....

[Fusilier]

The similarities were that both were over in a relatively short space of time and the assaulting force (UK and US) were technolgically and militarily far superior to those they faced.

The technology point is arguable. For example in '82 the British only had a few dozen sets of night vision spread out over their 8 battalions in theater while the Argies had hundreds. They weren't outmatched technologically as one might think, the British were just better soldiers.

[Legbreaker]

The British did however have much newer ships and planes. The men on the ground may have had similar equipment, but the same could probably be said of US troops in Grenada - it's not like today when every man is loaded down with electronics.

[Fusilier]

The British did however have much newer ships and planes. The men on the ground may have had similar equipment, but the same could probably be said of US troops in Grenada - it's not like today when every man is loaded down with electronics.

Ships yes, but even though no Harriers were lost due to air combat, only ground fire and accidents, the Mirage was a credible threat. The Cubans in Grenada on the other hand didn't even have air support. Most of the ships that were lost were not from the modern exocet but free fall iron bombs too.

I will agree that it isn't like today where the soldier has so much reliance on technology. The battles in 82 were about men and rifles.

[Schone23666]

Ships yes, but even though no Harriers were lost due to air combat, only ground fire and accidents, the Mirage was a credible threat. The Cubans in Grenada on the other hand didn't even have air support. Most of the ships that were lost were not from the modern exocet but free fall iron bombs too.

I will agree that it isn't like today where the soldier has so much reliance on technology. The battles in 82 were about men and rifles.

It still boils down to men and rifles. There's just more gizmoes thrown in.

[Rainbow Six]

I can recall seeing somewhere that before Chile and Argentina got into it against each other, Argentina did in fact invade the Falklands again, but were forced out to defend on the mainland.
The UK were in no position to stop them coming and didn't have a lot to do with seeing them off again either (except perhaps sending a few harsh words their way).

I can't recall where I saw it though, but I'm convinced it's canon (V2.x anyway).

Pretty sure you're right...I think it's in the section towards the back the BYB that describes the global situation. I don't think it's mentioned at all in V1 other than a reference in the Survivor's Guide to UK about a Battalion of Territorial Infantry being sent to bolster the island's defences but that's about it.

Schone, there have been a couple of previous threads about the Falklands which you may find of interest...

Here...

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=2631&highlight=Falklands

And here...

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=941&highlight=Falklands

[Schone23666]

Ah, thanks for that RainbowSix, I missed those threads. I just thought it felt relevant to raise it up again since the Falklands are once again an issue, apparently.

However, Avantman42 did list a series of incidents that show this is hardly an old issue:

1903: Argentina acquires administration of a meterological station in the South Orkney Islands, and claims it as evidence of a transfer of sovereignty throughout all the Falkland Islands Dependencies
1927: Argentina asks the International Postal Union to accept Argentine jurisdition over all the Falkland Islands Dependencies
1947: Argentina issues stamps for use in 'Malvinas and Dependencies'
1960: UN Resolution 1514 calls for an end to colonialism; Britain lists the Islands as a colony and Argentina objects
1964: An Argentine pilot lands a Cessna 172 on Stanley racecourse, plants Argentine flag and hands over letter declaring Argentine sovereignty
1966: Aerolineas Argentinas DC4 lands on Stanley racecourse after being hijacked by 20 terrorists calling themselves 'Condors' who take 4 Islanders prisoner but surrender after 1 night
1966: Argentine marines dropped off at night by submarine Santiago del Estero to reconnoitre potential landing beaches near Stanley
1968: Small private plane with 3 Argentines on board, sponsored by Argentine press, crash-lands in Stanley
1973: Newly-elected Argentine Peronist government renews sovereignty claim in the UN
1975: Air travellers from Falklands now required to obtain clearance from Argentine Foreign Ministry (all air travel to/from the islands is via Argentina)
1976: British Antarctic Survey ship RRS Shackleton fired-on by Argentine gunboat
1976: Argentina sets up illegal and clandestine military base on Southern Thule, a Falkland Islands Dependency situated south of South Georgia
1977: Argentine sailors land on the island of Morrell in the South Sandwich Islands, claiming they are undertaking scientific research
1977: Britain secretly sends a nuclear submarine and two frigates to the South Atlantic in response to Argentine preparations for naval 'manoeuvres' which then halt
1981: Argentina protests to UN over lack of progress on sovereignty dispute

All the above happened before General Galtieri's junta seized power in Argentina.


Hmm, seems familiar, doesn't it

The Falklanders have stated their desire to remain under the Union Jack though, haven't they I've heard of various opinions on the Argentine side about "what to do with the Falklanders" if the islands became Las Malvinas ranging from just letting them continue to live under the Argentine flag (though somehow I don't think it would go over that smoothly) up to "forced relocation" (which I don't think would go over well at all).

[Rainbow Six]

The Falklanders have stated their desire to remain under the Union Jack though, haven't they

Correct. The Islanders' wishes are that the Falklands remains an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom.

[Schone23666]

To any and all our fellow U.K. readers and players, I've been following Sean Penn's latest antics and how he's waded into this international dispute. I'd like to apologize on American's behalf for this turkey who stars in turkey films, who clearly had no business getting involved in this dispute in the first place.

[Mahatatain]

The British did however have much newer ships and planes. The men on the ground may have had similar equipment, but the same could probably be said of US troops in Grenada - it's not like today when every man is loaded down with electronics.

Fusilier has already mentioned how big a threat the Mirage was (particularly with the extra Exocet missiles the French reputedly sold the Argentinians after the war had started ) but I have read somewhere that the British ground troops preferred the FN FALs that the Argentinians were armed with to the SLRs they were armed with and that some of them "swapped".

I've also read somewhere that the British troops were armed with a lot more AT weapons which they used against fixed positions. The basic difference in the ground war was really the training and (therefore) quality of the troops.

[Sanjuro]

I have read somewhere that the British ground troops preferred the FN FALs that the Argentinians were armed with to the SLRs

I haven't heard that, but I have heard some SF units (most notably the MAW cadre during the attack on Top Malo) who were armed with M16s regretted the loss of stopping power.

[Fusilier]

I haven't heard that, but I have heard some SF units (most notably the MAW cadre during the attack on Top Malo) who were armed with M16s regretted the loss of stopping power.

That's true - at least more than just a rumor. There's a youtube video of one of the MAWC guys talking about Top Malo and specifically mentioned shooting up one of his targets with a number of rounds but not killing him. He was quite disappointed in the weapon like you mentioned.