Medic's ramblings about Finland

[ShadoWarrior]

As for why Americans have not heard of him, I can only state that I've run in to Americans, who think polar bears walk the streets of Helsinki (the Finnish capital) and that we live in igloos (and I'm not even kidding or making his up, you know).

Probably the same muttonheads that think the Earth was created 6000 years ago.

Besides, from the American point of view, he fought on the wrong side.

That's not a valid generalization. I think that you may find that many, if not most, Americans, given a choice between fighting on the "Nazi side" and fighting on the Stalinist (Soviet) side, would choose the Nazis -- after someone explained the facts to them (most Americans being clueless about both). IMO, while the Nazis were awful, Stalin was even worse. Most history that's still being taught today glosses over the fact that Stalin killed more Russians than all the people that Hitler and his Third Reich goons did.

As for the movie, Finland was considered an Axis nation after the war and being located right next to Soviet Union, not too many films about the war were made before the fall of the Soviet Union. Though Finland was never occupied, the Soviet threat forced us to adopt appeasement policy and certain things were pretty much censored on the level of taboo.

Hence the Cold War term "Finlandization".

HBO is making a documentary/drama, Hemingway&Gellhorn, in which Simo H$yh$ will appear, portrayed by Steven Wiig.

Great news!

[Medic]

That's not a valid generalization. I think that you may find that many, if not most, Americans, given a choice between fighting on the "Nazi side" and fighting on the Stalinist (Soviet) side, would choose the Nazis -- after someone explained the facts to them (most Americans being clueless about both). IMO, while the Nazis were awful, Stalin was even worse. Most history that's still being taught today glosses over the fact that Stalin killed more Russians than all the people that Hitler and his Third Reich goons did.

Hence the Cold War term "Finlandization".

Great news!

The Americans (nor British, French nor everyone and their uncle) did much to stop the Soviets in the Watch Commission, when they decided, the Finnish reserve officer training was not needed, for an example, nor when a number of Finnish politicians were ordered to be sentenced for war crimes by the Soviets by a retroactive change of Finnish law, which was clearly against both Finnish constitution and the very principles of any western legal system. So yes, I still say, Finland was on the wrong side in the war, when U.S. of A. was concerned.

As I said earlier, history is what the victors write - the losing parties hardly ever get their say.

[manunancy]

That's not a valid generalization. I think that you may find that many, if not most, Americans, given a choice between fighting on the "Nazi side" and fighting on the Stalinist (Soviet) side, would choose the Nazis -- after someone explained the facts to them (most Americans being clueless about both). IMO, while the Nazis were awful, Stalin was even worse. Most history that's still being taught today glosses over the fact that Stalin killed more Russians than all the people that Hitler and his Third Reich goons did.

Considering the base population and the time he had to do it, Stalin's record while far from nice is probably better than the nazis's. And one can give him credit for one thing : he was fairly egalitarian in his heavy-handedness. Basicially anyone looking like he might challenge his power got a ticket for Siberia.

I would also point that even if the goulag was a far cry from a picnic, he never went for the planified industrial extermination of embarassing minorities - rather he had them displaced and spread over the USSR while planting a strong russian minority to act as a bullwark against nationalist impulses.

If you want to find worse than the Nazis, I'd rather pin that medal on Pol Pot and his Red Khmers. If you compare the damage they did with Cambodia's population, especially considering for how long they were in power, Stalin is a amateur.

[Targan]

Well as I've said before, I suspect that part of the reason why Stalin didn't lose any sleep at night over killing, displacing and generally mistreating large numbers of Russians was that he wasn't Russian.

[Tegyrius]

Guys, really. Do we have to destroy another thread with a discussion of the Nazis' relative level of evil

- C.

[Targan]

Guys, really. Do we have to destroy another thread with a discussion of the Nazis' relative level of evil

Maybe everyone's just getting ready for Iron Sky

[Bullet Magnet]

don't feel bad they think the same way about Canada too

No. We think your cities have moose and sasquatch populations that outnumber the humans however.

[Canadian Army]

No. We think your cities have moose and sasquatch populations that outnumber the humans however.

Moose do out number humans, but only in Newfoundland.

[Sanjuro]

Moose do out number humans, but only in Newfoundland.

I note Canadian Army doesn't challenge the saying about the Sasquatch...

[Canadian Army]

The Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization there are 2000 - 6000 in North America, but let not turn this in a Sasquatch/Bigfoot thread.

[Targan]

Medic, did the S!mi people as a group participate in the Winter War At the time were they considered to be citizens of Finland (or did they consider themselves as such) I'm guessing they must have participated in the war as individuals. Their arctic fieldcraft would have been superb.

[Medic]

Medic, did the S!mi people as a group participate in the Winter War At the time were they considered to be citizens of Finland (or did they consider themselves as such) I'm guessing they must have participated in the war as individuals. Their arctic fieldcraft would have been superb.

It would have been, yes, and as far as I know, they served. The thing is, though, their numbers are limited - not all those living in the Finnish Lapland are Sami. People there can also be partially or completely ethnic Finns. The Lapland was also a battlefield, though the main front was on Karelian Isthmus. The Soviets attacked with three divisions, met by two Separate Battalions (17th and 26th), Infantry Regiment 40, 7th and 9th Battalions of the "Replacement Brigade", two batteries of artillery, three Companies (10th and 11th Separate, the third one I'll dig up when I have time), and finally, Reconnaissance Group 11.

With woodless and relatively uncovered, flat terrain, defense was difficult, so the Finns used mostly guerilla tactics aided by the fact, the winters in Lapland are practically a constant night due to the location on the globe. They managed to successfully fight the Soviets with odds of 1 to 5 for the advantage of the Soviets.

[Canadian Army]

Get to part about Lauri Trni (Larry Thorne) and Detachment Trni.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Get to part about Lauri Trni (Larry Thorne) and Detachment Trni.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/larry-thorne.htm Arlington National Cemetery page for Thorne

http://www.themilitaryview.com/q=node/201 US Army Lieutenant Colonel retired, Jerry Hogan's personal recollection of Thorne

[Medic]

I'm a bit busy with work-related stuff, but I promise, I'll give you a good deal of information about Lauri Trni (a.k.a. Larry Thorne), when I have the time.I will, however, advance chronologically with the posts...