Norfolk, VA - Homecoming

[Tombot]

Was there anywhere some data about that place (i mean BEFORE 2001, where "Howling wilderness" just has a small entry about the "shrinking Milgov-enclave in the ruins of Norfolk")
I am wondering.

And how would any G.I. end up siding with the civil government & the CIA, when Milgov organized the evacuation from europe, and had hold of Norfolk
(Thats why iam asking myself about the installations there, in the first place).


What would it be like there
I imagine a burned and ruined place. Some patrolling soldiers in NBC-suits on the surface, listening to the crackling geiger-counters.
And lots of sweaty Milgov-soldiers crawling around in underground-messhalls beneath... Rationing, and a police-state-like atmosphere. Units getting their orders to make their way to different Milgov-installations, etc.

Any ideas

[Tombot]

Bottomline

All right, i read through several older threads, where i discovered a lot.

I am going to use it the way, some forummembers went for: Norfolk was drastically damaged, but not destroyed.
In my campaign, it gonna be a (for the PCs surprisingly, but pretty "postapocalyptic") sad homecoming for the returnees; a base with a skeleton-crew, having meager foodstocks; a place which is about to be abandoned soon..

There will be a bizarre mix out of propaganda, rationing, bad morale among the newcomers and thoughts of desertion.
Right after the arrival of the fleet, every european vet is expected to leave for another place.The soldiers must hurry with the distribution of the returnees, to avoid starvation.

The PCs will get options which (mostly very long) travel to anyother Milgov-enclave they should undertake next. New Jersey, a mission in N.Y., Texas maybe...
"Could be less shitty there, than here.."

[Rainbow Six]

I always imagined a bittersweet scene where the Omega ships were greeted by what passes as a band (i.e. half a dozen guys on the quayside with a variety of instruments) playing "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" as the troops disembark and realise that things are just as bad as they were in Europe.

[Olefin]

add in several half sunken or clearly heavily damaged ships being seen clearly by the arriving troops or better yet them being ordered into their MOPP gear as they approach Norfolk or having iodine pills distributed to them

[M-Type]

...or better yet them being ordered into their MOPP gear as they approach Norfolk or having iodine pills distributed to them

I like that.

[Rainbow Six]

add in several half sunken or clearly heavily damaged ships

Nice...maybe they see the derelict island of a sunken aircraft carrier protruding above the ocean's surface. As they get closer they can see the number painted on the side spelling out the fact that it's a USN CVN.

[Adm.Lee]

add in several half sunken or clearly heavily damaged ships being seen clearly by the arriving troops or better yet them being ordered into their MOPP gear as they approach Norfolk or having iodine pills distributed to them

Ya know, if there's still radiation about, why is MilGov even using the port to unload Surely, there's someplace else on the Virginia coast/Chesapeake Bay that isn't so bad off

IMC, the naval base might be hit, but there's a civil port that could be used

[Targan]

My take on it has always been that it couldn't have been a direct hit. If the nuke strike had been on target, why would the US military bother using the naval base at Norfolk Way too much effort to make it even partly functional.

[Olefin]

There would still be low level radiation around - and the sunken ships could be from damage from a hit off the coast - i.e. tsunami caused by a nuke burst hitting ships in shallow water

[Fusilier]

i.e. tsunami caused by a nuke burst hitting ships in shallow water

A nuclear induced tsunami is mentioned occurring elsewhere in one of the Twilight2000 books, but it's an improbable event. Even the largest nuclear weapons don't have the required energy that is required to create a true tsunami of radiated seawater from an air/surface burst offshore.

Unless it was a controlled underwater blast, like the test types used in the Pacific, a normal surface blast close enough to the harbor for large wave action to hit ships would also be irrelevant with regards to blast effects.

An underwater detonation could create large waves that may irradiate ships if close enough, but there's the unresolved issue of the nuclear weapons needing to survive the initial impact against the surface of the ocean and then for some reason, going through a delayed detonation.

For myself, I just go with the idea that it is a near miss. Enough for blast damage to effect the harbor facilities, but distant enough to keep enough intact for basic use. An airbust also negates the issue of radiation a great deal.

[Tombot]

"...For myself, I just go with the idea that it is a near miss. Enough for blast damage to effect the harbor facilities, but distant enough to keep enough intact for basic use. An airbust also negates the issue of radiation a great deal".[/QUOTE]

Thats the way to go for me,too.
And i liked Rainbow & Olefins scene descriptions.

After reading through the older threads regarding this topic, i am convinced, that there is no way, that
a) if you want to use Norfolk as an active (at least still in winter 2000) Milgov-base,
b) and it was nearly missed by the nukes (canon had it nuked)
the people running the place have had no way of preparing the arrival of ca. 43.000 people in a fashion, that everyone has enough food and "safe" transportation out of Norfolk. Or the hygienic conditions to provide a longer stay for everyone.

Here we have a opportunity for a drastic T2k- "mass-scene", as the ships are unloaded within the ruined harbor-area. Lots of queues, which are under strict control by unfriendly marines in NBC-gear. And loudspeakers with patriotic music, warnings about radiation-hazards, desertion, etc.

The girls and boys get off the ships with several thousands of others, but they dont get, what they expected. Instead of enough food, and a save haven with lots of information about several locations within conus ("what about our familys back home in Walnut Grove, sir" - they get rations for 2 days max and learn, that they will get to Jersey or some other base, far away.
And fast! IF they are able, after getting off the ship.. where they had rationed food and water, too i guess.

As long as the PCs are in the massive bulk of the undistributed european vets, they have to be treated like refugees - just because of the pure amount of them. Theres no other way to handle that many hungry people.
And even that wont be good enough for the survival of everyone, if the hordes of soldiers, are not split in several different directions.
"Sorry, theres not enough vaccine here for everyone. Just look around you, idiot! Get back in line!" (a shot in the background once in a while).

Ohter ideas could include drugged patrol-soldiers (heavy on all kinds of happy-pills "to handle this shit" - radiation, fear of starvation in the near future, no privacy in crowded underground installations, same underwear for weeks now..), people dying from old injuries and new diseases in cramped fieldbeds, after getting through the whole war in europe..

Remember that scene in "apocalypse now", when the boat reaches a US outpost at a bridge upstream under constant attack
The whole scene screamed "everything is spiraling downwards" and was filled with little details, how the military order falls apart.
That would the atmosphere i think would be fitting, till the PCs reach another place with less people around to feed (or to catch disease from).
Norfolk is just a makeshift solution of Milgovs former plans for the returnees - whats ahead, is pretty much open (at least to the players).

[raketenjagdpanzer]

For myself, I just go with the idea that it is a near miss. Enough for blast damage to effect the harbor facilities, but distant enough to keep enough intact for basic use. An airbust also negates the issue of radiation a great deal.

At Crossroads, a "direct hit" only sank five ships (now, granted, it was a 23kiloton blast, not the multiple-megaton city-killers that would have been used during a general nuclear war, so a near miss that buried itself in the mud a few clicks from Norfolk prior to going off probably wouldn't wreck that many ships.

[Fusilier]

Probably not. And in addition, it was also a static detonation. For a inbound missile to embed itself in the mud, it would need to survive an ocean impact while traveling at tremendous speed.

[James1978]

Going Home - Norfolk

I think there is some wiggle room here if you want to add some detail or play with the background a little.

Now Howling Wilderness says Norfolk/Portsmouth took a 1 Mt. hit. I think that "/Portsmouth" part is interesting. If you play with NUKEMAP some to adjust ground zero, you can make the facts be just about whatever you like.
* With a 1 Mt. hit, I can get Norfolk Naval Shipyard, Norfolk Naval Station, Little Creek Amphibious Base, Craney Naval Fuel Terminal, the Coast Guard Station all within the thermal radiation radius.
* Ground Zero on Little Creek leaves Portsmouth and the Norfolk Naval Shipyard intact. Most of the Naval Station is within the thermal radiation radius, but not the docks/piers.
* Ground Zero on Norfolk Naval shipyard leaves Little Creek intact, and most of the Naval Station.

Anyhow, you get the idea. Depending on just where Ground Zero is/was, the location where the European vets disembark can easily be what Olefin describes. Not destroyed, but not a nice place either. I like it.

Now what all of this makes me wonder, is what is going on across Hampton Roads on the Virginia Peninsula. Over there, you've got Newport News Shipbuilding, Langley AFB, Fort Eustis, Fort Monroe, and the Yorktown Naval Weapons Station. At first glance that strikes me as a better place to set up a cantonment if the south side of Hampton Roads took a 1 Mt. nuke.

GlobalSecurity has a good listing of military facilities in the Hampton Roads area for anyone wanting to add some texture.

[Tombot]

I think there is some wiggle room here if you want to add some detail or play with the background a little.

GlobalSecurity has a good listing of military facilities in the Hampton Roads area for anyone wanting to add some texture.

Thats an informative reference,thx.
Has anyone maybe made some form of a map with a view notes on positions of current villages and milgov-/ marauder-bases of that area

One part of my usual work with the modules is always to copy a normal map and make a "GM - Map" with hints about all the info from the book to keep an overview.
Was the same with "Howling wilderness" and for the slesia-area near Krakow. After i read through it, i couldnt keep track of who was going where, till i started to make a crude hexmap with several dots and coloured arrows for movement of groups/cantonments...
And i have to do a catalogue (usually statwise in alphabetical order) with a
short Profile of every important/interesting place mentioned (a bit like they do it with planet-profiles in Traveller). The center here should be undoubtly Fort Dix.