Notice of Ban

[Legbreaker]

Since then, the moderators have received two PM complaints about your forum behavior, each from a different user.

In the interest of openness, I'd like to know who it was that felt they couldn't talk directly to me by PM about their issues. I don't bite.

[RN7]

In the interest of openness, I'd like to know who it was that felt they couldn't talk directly to me by PM about their issues. I don't bite.

As Raellus has revealed that two people have privately complained about the behaviour of Legbreaker, then I think that these two people should come out and say publically what their complaint about Legreaker actually is in the interest of openess on this forum.

I like to talk about aspects of T2K with the other members on this forum and I like to debate points with them. Most of the people who I regularly talk with are willing to engage in a level headed and open debate and I never felt that I had to control my thoughts and oppinions. So far I don't think I've said anything to warrant any complaints and I've never been contacted by a moderator about it, but now I don't realy know what other people are thinking.

I've had some discussions with Olefin and Legbreaker on this forum and I've never felt offended by what they have said or have felt the need to privately complain about them. Perhaps Olefin took things a bit to far with his method or argument with other members and how he engages people, but he has been punished for it with a one month ban. Legbreaker has also had to publicaly take a lot of critism and defend himself over all of this. Whoever complained about him should come out and tell us all who they are and what their complaint is.

[Raellus]

In the interest of openness, I'd like to know who it was that felt they couldn't talk directly to me by PM about their issues. I don't bite.

If they felt like they could talk to you about whatever it was that was bothering them, then they probably would have PMed you instead of us.

I could be wrong, though. So if those folks would like to address you directly, then I would encourage them to do so via PM. If they would like a referee, they could CC a mod or three. I'm not going to divulge the identity of the authors or the content of their PMs, however. As I said before, I think PMs should stay that way, unless they violate forum norms. If we'd placed a ban on you instead of just issuing a warning, then I think it would be only fair for you to get a chance to face your accuser. But since it was only a warning, I don't think that's necessary. You asked why you were issued a warning and I explained.

Leg, you seem to think that you didn't do anything wrong, so how would a fresh round of complaints lead to anything constructive I really don't think a new cycle of public accuse-and-defend posts would contribute anything positive to this forum. It was that sort of heated, contentious, "debate" that led to the bans in the first place. It's clear that you like to argue, but, besides maybe RN7, most of the rest of us don't really enjoy being witnesses to it.

The fact that certain members don't have a problem with someone or something here, or that someone's received messages of support from others, doesn't mean that certain forum behaviors are appropriate or acceptable. We're all going to see things differently. But when we (the mods) receive multiple private complaints, and private warnings don't have the desired effect, then something else must be done. I've made it very clear why you were issued a public, official warning. There's really no point in going over this whole mess again and again. Please learn something from this and move on.

[simonmark6]

I disagree with that suggestion entirely. If people felt uncomfortable enough to use PMs to express their worries with the moderators then insisting that they declare themselves in some spirit of "openness" is most likely to just make them even more uncomfortable than they really are.

In the end the mods have made their decision and I was happy to draw a line under the issue and move on. If other people aren't we are in danger of just spiraling back into the arguments again.

I made a fool of myself with a public resignation which was really a self-imposed ban as I found myself getting increasingly frustrated and wanting to start arguing as well. I felt that would be detrimental to the board thus I took myself away until my life had evened out enough to be able to deal with the board like an adult again.

On my return I was relieved to see that the status quo was starting to be re-established: this is in danger of flying apart again. I understand that people feel the need to have their accuser speak to them directly but that is a dangerous precedent to set: we trust the moderators to keep the board the way we want it and their decision is, in my opinion final and it is damaging to keep questioning that process here.

I apologise if I have offended anyone with this post, but I am concerned that we'll now be swamped with calls for people to stand up and say if they were the complainants and I believe that that will be a very dangerous precedent to set.

Openness and freedom of speech is a fine thing but so is the protection of trust and confidentiality. The people that made PM complaints to the mods trusted that their confidentiality would be preserved and we have to accept that if they had felt confident enough to speak to Leg personally, they would have. Forcing them to do that now is tantamount to bullying and I am strongly against that in any form.

[RN7]

Leg, you seem to think that you didn't do anything wrong, so how would a fresh round of complaints lead to anything constructive I really don't think a new cycle of public accuse-and-defend posts would contribute anything positive to this forum. It was that sort of heated, contentious, "debate" that led to the bans in the first place. It's clear that you like to argue, but, besides maybe RN7, most of the rest of us don't really enjoy being witnesses to it.

I don't like witnessing arguments and I don't care to have my name dragged through all of this just because I defended someone who has been very publically critisised, and because I stated my own worries about something I don't agree with. I have a right to say and discuss things without being publicaly put down by you.

Why did you have to publically air all of this Perhaps publically questioning who was privatlely accusing him it wasn't the wisest thing for Legbreaker to do, but you told the whole forum that they did so I think the man has the right to ask who it was.

[Raellus]

I don't like witnessing arguments and I don't care to have my name dragged through all of this just because I defended someone who has been very publically critisised, and because I stated my own worries about something I don't agree with. I have a right to say and discuss things without being publicaly put down by you.

I apologize for insinuating that you enjoy witnessing arguments. It was not meant as a put-down. If people publicly confront Legbreaker about his forum beheavior, precedent strongly suggests an argument will ensue.

Why did you have to publically air all of this Perhaps publically questioning who was privatlely accusing him it wasn't the wisest thing for Legbreaker to do, but you told the whole forum that they did so I think the man has the right to ask who it was.

The current ban was publicly announced because the last ban (also involving Legbreaker) was publicly announced by the forum admin two years ago. We wanted people to know that we'd dealt with the problem. There's also the thought that a public notice would encourage, not only the afore-mentioned parties, but everyone who read it, to behave in a more civil, constructive manner.

[Cdnwolf]

Maybe its time to lock this thread.

[Medic]

Maybe its time to lock this thread.

Seconded.

[Tegyrius]

Plus one, as the kids say.

Leg, PM inbound.

- C.

[Mahatatain]

Maybe its time to lock this thread.

I think that that would be wise......

[Webstral]

Im locking this thread. I have burned up enough of my limited Twilight: 2000 time trying to sort through hurt feelings, he-said-I-said, and the re-opening of old wounds instead of creating new material. Were I a gambling man, Id put money down that the other mods feel the same way. Ill let that money ride that more than half of the people who come here want an end to the drama, not a sequel. Enough already.

If you still have an issue you need to air, PM me.

[Raellus]

Ban/Suspension Lifted

Olefin has successfully served out his 30-day ban and may now post on the forum again. Welcome back, Olefin.

Targan has successfully served his 30-day suspension of moderator status and is hereby reinstated as a moderator. Welcome back, Targan.

Let's all of us try to follow forum guidelines from here on out.

Viva la forum!