Law Enforcement Organizations in T2K

[Trooper]

The main problem I see with arming "auxiliaries" in Australia is the lack of pistols. They're a rather controlled item here with (besides law enforcement and some military units) the main allowable use being on the range (usually the specialist target varieties).
Some security guards can carry pistols, but they are usually .38 revolvers or something equally as inadequate.
Tasers and Capsicum spray are only a recent introduction here. In the T2K period they were virtually unheard off and I don't believe anyone was authorised to carry them, let alone use. Mace and other stronger "self defence" items are unavailable even for police. Batons require the wielder to pass a course before being allowed to carry (I carried a 5 D cell maglite instead when I was doing security work - same broken leg as a baton, but no need for the piece of paper).

The majority of "volunteers" would probably go to the military though given the deployment of troops to Korea (I'm working on a Brigade strength including some New Zealanders) plus the conflict with Indonesia in Papua New Guinea.

I know there was no shortage of L1A1 SLRs and even old SMLE Mark IIIs in storage in the 90's, which are a bit much for law enforcement purposes.

Very odd policy.

In Finland police use pistols only for self defence. If you are expecting armed resistance - number one choice is submachine gun, shotgun or assault rifle. Its not unusual to find one or two H&K MP-5s in normal squad car + pair of heavy IV-class vests.

MP-5 is quite popular weapon in police use. First there was some leftist whining about "machinegunners & stormtroopers". In real police line of work MP-5 saves lives- its nowdays much easier to shoot gun toting criminal in the leg. In "bad old days" you had to aim to "ten" (heart or head) with 38 snub nose or with 7,65 FN pistol.

[Medic]

Very odd policy.

In Finland police use pistols only for self defence. If you are expecting armed resistance - number one choice is submachine gun, shotgun or assault rifle. Its not unusual to find one or two H&K MP-5s in normal squad car + pair of heavy IV-class vests.

MP-5 is quite popular weapon in police use. First there was some leftist whining about "machinegunners & stormtroopers". In real police line of work MP-5 saves lives- its nowdays much easier to shoot gun toting criminal in the leg. In "bad old days" you had to aim to "ten" (heart or head) with 38 snub nose or with 7,65 FN pistol.

Let's add, the Finnish Police MP-5s are semi-auto only. If the police needs automatic weapons, they can request them from the military and the Commander of the Ground Forces will review the request either granting it or not. The same thing goes for armored personnel carriers that are crewed by the professional military, armed for self-defense only. The law says, military can not be used in crowd control and in case of military vehicles, even a water cannon is considered a weapon - if needed, the Border Guards can be called to assist the police in crowd control.

The military assistance to the police, including more advanced weapon systems like missiles and such, can be given with the consent of the Ministry of Defense, along with the crews to use them. Technically the police will then be responsible of their use while they are operated by the military (who will probably provide advice to the police on how to implement the said weapon systems).

The only difference to this is the Police Special Team "Karhu" (=Bear). They are police officers who receive a SWAT-style special training.

[simonmark6]

For auxilliary troops who are going to guard vital installations and police urban areas, the L1A1 and SMLE are not ideal weapons. The troops are going to miss a lot and the rounds are going to travel a long way before stopping. In Northern Ireland, there were cases of rounds penetrating the walls of people's houses.

I think that's why Leg was suggesting the use of pistols. Sub machine guns on semi-auto would be even better but I'm guessing they'd be in even shorter supply than pistols.

I'm not au fait with Austrailian gun laws, Leg but what about shotguns They might be an alternative: common, big intimidation value and easier to use in less trained hands. Plus is they do miss there's less likelihood of hitting an innocent civilian, if such a think exists in Oz, which I am sure there are. Some, well, maybe at least one...maybe...

[Trooper]

Let's add, the Finnish Police MP-5s are semi-auto only. If the police needs automatic weapons, they can request them from the military and the Commander of the Ground Forces will review the request either granting it or not..

Well lets say thats what police says. Some MP-5s are semiauto only, but police also have automatic weapons like MP-5s, silenced MP-5s, sterlings, Swedish-K:s, Suomis and H&K and Sig assault rifles.

Politically correct term for semi-auto MP-5 is "support weapon". Most police officers use "support weapon". I have trained with our local PD and in that training we used full auto version of MP-5.

[Medic]

Well lets say thats what police says. Some MP-5s are semiauto only, but police also have automatic weapons like MP-5s, silenced MP-5s, sterlings, Swedish-K:s, Suomis and H&K and Sig assault rifles.

Politically correct term for semi-auto MP-5 is "support weapon". Most police officers use "support weapon". I have trained with our local PD and in that training we used full auto version of MP-5.

They must have been ERTI-task force (probably Karhu), then. The military grade hardware for them is off limits by the law otherwise. If I may ask, what kind of a circumstance was it when you trained with them - I'm just curious, since I have some history of co-operating with various PDs in Finland and I've never seen them carry a fully automatic weapon.

(ERTI: erityistilanne = special circumstances, usually siege or heavily armed criminals etc.)

[Legbreaker]

I think that's why Leg was suggesting the use of pistols. Sub machine guns on semi-auto would be even better but I'm guessing they'd be in even shorter supply than pistols.

Only specialist police such as the Special Operations Group (SOG) or Police Tactical Group (exact name differs between states) possess, or are even trained with anything more than their service pistol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Police

I'm not au fait with Australian gun laws, Leg but what about shotguns

Well, true, but given the actual police aren't authorised more than pistols except in special situations....

Also, in 1996 there was a major change to Australian firearms laws due to Martin Bryants slaughter of 35 people in April of that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_bryant

Basically, the laws restricted the ownership of firearms to bolt action only for the most part, although some permits are issued for special use such as farmers. Pump shotguns were made illegal overnight and any decent semi auto weapons also.
You can forget about any automatics or heavy weapons!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Firearms_categories

This change in law occurred before the outbreak of hostilities. It's therefore quite probable (although by no means certain) "useful" weapons would be severely restricted. However, with the possibility of Indonesia already making threatening noises, who knows