US Recovery Plan

[Graebarde]

We have discussed it in detail.


And written none of it down yet.

I'm going to try to find some time in the next few weeks to write some more... I can claim to the family I have an "important project" I need to work on and avoid endless days of babysitting!

Good luck with that!!

Grae

[Webstral]

First and foremost, I love the tone of optimism. You guys assume a can-do approach on the part of the troops being evacuated from Europe that I find appropriate, if not entirely keeping with the general tone of Twilight: 2000. Still, I'm far more a Postman type than a Road Warrior type. As an historical precedent, morale in the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front began to increase after February 1942 simply because the German soldiers still alive were in fact still alive. They had taken the worst the Russians could dish out on their own turf. By the same token, although the Europe veterans find the US in tough shape, at least they are home. If good leaders can be found, the soldiers will follow.

Reorganizations are not as easy as they sound. The idea of reorganizing thousands of men while underway across the Atlantic is unrealistic. (That's a euphemism.) The US Army required a year to reorganize only some of its triangular divisions into square formations. This, by the way, is how my National Guard brigade got to take its vacation in Baghdad. Granted, corners can be cut, etc. However, taking formations that have fallen apart along the road to Bremen and turning them back into fighting forces involves a lot more than informing troops in the hold of a ship that they are now in C Company, X Battalion, Y Brigade. We might think that it should be that simple, but soldiers just aren't that way.

Nevertheless, provided the Omega force can be fed once they disembark, they can be reorganized into proper fighting formations. Heavy equipment will have to be redistributed, drills and ceremony practiced. Yes, drill and ceremony. Soldiers who have been through what the Europe veterans have been through and who are being reorganized on the western side of the Atlantic badly need the organic experience of rebuilding companies, then battalions, through such timeless activities as drill and ceremony. Commanders that fail to recognize such basic needs on the part of their troops are failing to counter the understandable anxieties of returning to a shattered homeland and the tendency of war-weary troops to desert are asking for trouble. Commanders are going to need to see their reorganized troops and be seen by their reorganized troops. All of this takes more time than anyone thinks it ought to take.

Mind, I'm not criticizing. Again, I love the optimistic tone of the work. I do believe the timetables need to be adjusted somewhat to allow tens of thousands of Europe veterans to adjust to the realities of the reorganization and rebuild trust in the new formations. Intact formations struggle with getting off the boat and right to work. In 2001, the Omega guys are going to need a bit of time to get sorted.

Very enjoyable reading, DC Group!

Webstral

[Webstral]

It occurs to me that my first response to the DC Group's work needs to reflect more of the many positive items therein. Having spent many, many hours on Thunder Empire and other projects, I know how much effort goes into their projects.

I love the acknowledgment that the Joint Chiefs have little or no leverage over theater commanders by 2001. This is a very important dynamic that has a big effect on how recovery develops. The theater and regional commanders become much more like nobility than modern flag officers. Like the dukes of Germany in the time of Otto I, the theater commanders are, in effect, peers with the crown. They are coordinating with the throne, but they are not in a position to be removed, eliminated, or otherwise seriously affected by the crown's displeasure. Individual personalities become extremely important under these circumstances. Good call, gentlemen!

Going further with the importance of individual personalities, I love the conflict between SACEUR and CINCLANT. Equally, I love the implied effect of CINCLANT's attitude on the eastern Virginia enclave. The whole command is in the doldrums due to command influence. By the same token, the Europe veterans have a better attitude because their commander has a better attitude. I think that this phenomenon supports my contention that the returning Europe veterans need time to refit, reorganize, and reestablish the right mentality. SACEUR needs to get out there and speak to battalion formations about the sanctity of the mission, their role in rebuilding the nation, etc. SACEUR needs face time to work his magic, just as CINCLANT's presumed absence has created storm clouds over his command.

The idea of reforming the former divisions as brigades carrying division lineages is a good one. I endorse it wholeheartedly.

I'm glad Korea was covered. I'd hate to think that the 8th Army boys were abandoned to their fates in the Far East.

One item that gives me pause is the apparently large numbers of functional vehicles the forces from Europe fall in on in early 2001. The listed reorganization of combat for brigades includes heavy engineer battalions that seem to take possession of large quantities of operable heavy equipment. Who has been maintaining this equipment What have they been doing with it How is all of this gear suddenly available for the troops from Europe I'm not saying answers aren't possible, but they should be provided to make the equipping of several battalions of combat engineers more believable.

I like the creative approach to using Seabees in support of each new corps.

You've added a lot of high-end functional naval vessels to the US arsenal, not least of which are three nuclear submarines. Who has been providing maintenance for them

The notes on the South Jersey enclave are appreciated. Although everyone has suffered, not every location is going to experience the same level of degradation. I wonder, though, whether one simply restarts a nuke plant. If so, why have so few other plants been restarted Again, I'm not saying it can't be done it deserves some explanation, if only to set it apart from other non-functional nuke plants around the country.

I appreciate seeing First District mentioned. The threat of withdrawn resources will mean more if the Joint Chiefs actually possess the means to distribute resources thus the desire for airships.

The resumption of classes at Princeton is an interesting idea. I like it, but it also begs further explanation. How have the faculty and staff kept themselves alive during the interim Who is feeding them now As before, I'm not saying it can't be done. I'd like to see it done very much. Nevertheless, how the academics find themselves not among the half of the US population that has died by early 2001 and available for the resumption of instruction deserves explanation.

I love the creativity and optimism!

Webstral

[fightingflamingo]

Web,
we're going under the assumption that a number of reactor operators are available from the US navy, as either their ships are laid up or are destroyed. With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.
As far as restarting, all the reactors are adjacent to navagable waterways in NJ, so either the Navy will get some sort of salvage vessel which can provide initial start up electricity on site, or they will bring in mobile electrical generators to provide start up power. Once the Oyster Creek (near Toms River) plant is running, we were going to have a tech school established.

After the initial restarts, we're assuming that a cadre of skilled techs is developed, whom can specialize in the restart phase, which I'd assume to be more difficult, then they could be replaced by operators trained at Oyster Creek.

FF

[kato13]

With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.

This was one of the most serious problems with the last sub series IMO. I know they wanted a reason to put the players on the sub but given the Blue/Gold crew system and the fact that there was a callup of Naval reserves and no boats to put them on the math of "no qualified submariners" did just not add up.

[Webstral]

Web,
we're going under the assumption that a number of reactor operators are available from the US navy, as either their ships are laid up or are destroyed. With the boombers the Navy typically has two crews, so there should be some reactor techs available.
As far as restarting, all the reactors are adjacent to navagable waterways in NJ, so either the Navy will get some sort of salvage vessel which can provide initial start up electricity on site, or they will bring in mobile electrical generators to provide start up power. Once the Oyster Creek (near Toms River) plant is running, we were going to have a tech school established.

After the initial restarts, we're assuming that a cadre of skilled techs is developed, whom can specialize in the restart phase, which I'd assume to be more difficult, then they could be replaced by operators trained at Oyster Creek.

FF

I'll support it. Of course, you don't need my support, but I'll give it anyway. Certainly, I think the idea of using Navy guys to operate the nuke plants is a good use of human resources, and these guys are more likely to be available than the civilian operators. (One could make a case for the civilian operators being taken into protective custody in at least one or two cases early on.)

I have a couple of follow-on questions:
How transferrable are the skills for operating naval vessel nuke plants and commercial plants
How long does it take to train a newbie to do this Presumably, one can't just pick someone off the street and get a nuclear plant operator within three months. Obviously, it's better to get someone with as close a background as possible to minimize the transition time.
I understand that Oyster Creek shuts down prior to the Thanksgiving attack. Is this sufficient to avoid EMP damage Have you guys addressed why Oyster Creek is operable while so many other nuke plants throughout the country (including at least one in New England) are not

Following up on the discussion of resource priorities from the Manifest Destiny thread on airships, I believe you guys are right to prioritize nuke plant operation in the recovery plan. It's hard to imagine what would come higher on the list, aside from growing food and physical security.

If southern New Jersey has reliable electricity, then it might be possible to manufacture ammonia fertilizers. In this way, the bumped-up military presence in the area would translate directly into increased agricultural productivity.

Webstral

[natehale1971]

having brigades carrying the linages of Divisions in the post-Twilight US Army is something I had done in my 2300ad campaign as well. the new 'divisional' level was called battlegroups, and Corps remained as the same title, but became a coordinating headquarters for large-scale combat. if i can find the notes i had for my 2300ad campaign i'll post them if anyone wants to see them.

[Cdnwolf]

Great work. Few little things that might have to be looked into.

Lack of trained technical people - To restart the nuclear and oilfields you need a lot of skilled workers... and most were probably killed during the attacks that destroyed/damaged the resource fields.

I have a problem with all the fuel oil that is available for all the ships and aircraft. Rebuilding the oil fields in Iraq is still not complete and thats after billions of dollars of money and trained technical help poured into the country. The start of the book "Red Storm Rising" by Tom Clancy described how hard and how long it would take to rebuild a destroyed oilfield. And refining the product into something capable to be used by ships is one thing... but avgas or jetfuel is almost impossible.

Still you are doing great work and I congratulate the team for their work.

[fightingflamingo]

I'm gonna address a couple of things here.

1st operating nuclear reactors, the American Nuclear Power industry is full of naval veterans now, and has been for some time. Back in the day, I dated a girl who's father was a reactor operator at Hope Creek, he learned to operate reactors on submarines, Ben Franklin's in the '70. Essentially, the principals of operation are the same.

We are not intending on creating nuclear scientists at our reactor tech training facility, but rather techs who can safely operate, and maintain the powerplants. We feel that a percentage of the 2000 population would have been skilled in related industries (e.g. fossil fuel power generation, engineering sections for laid up or destroyed naval vessels, utilities workers, etc.) that we won't have to start from scratch in all areas of instruction with all trainee's. The trainee's should be after several weeks of instruction, be able to handle most operations of the plants, and turbines, and after several months trained to handle contingencies (emergency shutdowns, etc). And frankly, IMHO (which I don't intend to present as representative of the DC Group), the NJ enclave is willing to bear a certain potential risk in reactivating these plant's, because the potential rewards of doing so are minor compared to the risks of having an accident and irradiating more of the landscape (powerplants don't have nuclear detonations, but accidents still can cause considerable contamination).

2) Regarding the USMA at Princeton, this was touched on in the Mobilization for War document. We see the evacuation of the West Point (staff, and the Corp of Cadets, sometime in the spring of 1998). In the case of instructors, there will be an upcoming document on "Operation Athena" (working title), which will involve small unit expeditions to area's outside of the NJ enclave's area of control, to find University and College Professors along with surviving library materials, and any equipment which might be transported and get them to relocate to the South Jersey enclave. In addition to the USMA located on the Campus of Princeton University, Milgov will be supporting the following institutions in reestablishing operations; Rowan University (Glassboro, NJ: Engineering, Teaching, Nursing), Stockton College of NJ (Pomona, NJ: Agriculture, biosciences), Burlington County College (Pemberton, NJ: Nursing, Teaching, Agriculture), Atlantic Cape Community College (Mays Landing, NJ: Nursing, Teaching Agriculture). Additionally, incorporated into the operation of Princeton will be Ryder University and the College of New Jersey (formerly Trenton State College), both are in the immediate area (Hamilton Twp, NJ I think) of Princeton, again Nursing, Agriculture and teaching would be key to recovery in our view. We feel that we can get enough qualified people to operate these facilities at a reduced level to produce a number of trained people to help facilitate the recovery effort.

3) Regarding Equipment for the reformed/new engineer units. these are not really combat engineer units, but more of a construction engineer type of unit, with some combat capability as dismounted infantry when required, however, the bulk of their equipment will be canabalized from civilian contruction equipment scavanged from across Milgov controlled areas (DOT's, construction companies, etc.). Most of this equipment if fairly rugged, and sits on job sites for extended periods without maintenance, and we think that there will be plenty for the returning USAREUR mechanics to work on.

FF

[m47dragon]

How transferrable are the skills for operating naval vessel nuke plants and commercial plants
How long does it take to train a newbie to do this Presumably, one can't just pick someone off the street and get a nuclear plant operator within three months. Obviously, it's better to get someone with as close a background as possible to minimize the transition time.

Naval Nuclear Operators will have spent months in power school and will be well versed in the required theory. The time spent aboard ship gives them the practice.

Something those outside of the nuclear power industry may not be aware of is how INTENSELY every aspect of nuclear power plant operations is procedure driven. It's all written down (safe shut down, safe start up, safe operation, etc.) Additionally, every operating plant has a control room simulator...they can practice

I've known many control room operators and auxiliary operators (who do most of the actual work) and, while most were former Navy, many were not. More than the controlling of a fision reaction is involved...you have to know a lot about what is essentially steam power. Boiler technicians and conventional power plant operators (military or commercial) would be extremely valuable and should be able to cross-train. Highly doable, even in a T2000 era.

On an additional note, I'm pretty sure nuke plants (the ones I have experience with, anyway) rely on outside or emergency power to operate the facility's systems (they can't harness the power they produce.)

I wonder what kind of adventures the plant's security forces have had during the intervening period...they would have been well staffed, well trained and well armed.

[Webstral]

1) I really dont know anything about nuke operation, so I can buy off on any explanation that minimizes suspension of disbelief. I do like the hard-nosed mentality regarding risk. This seems very Twilight: 2000.
2) I think the idea of using former university instructors for recovery is a natural fit. Just how many qualified instructors will be left to be found by early 2001 is, I think, subject to some debate. Still, any level of instruction is a good start and a good idea. The smaller the school, the easier it is to imagine them being fed on the local economy.
3) This one is a bit too optimistic, I believe. Heavy construction gear might be durable, but by the time Milgov gets its Europe veterans operating along the Atlantic seaboard, it will have been more than three years since the nuclear exchange. Engine seals dry out. Other problems associated with exposure will occur. The real problem, though, is that the kind of heavy gear that a construction engineer battalion is going to use (dozers, graders, backhoes, etc.) is going to be highly valuable to everyone else. Surviving equipment will have been claimed by someone or other, then driven into the ground as long as fuel supplies last. Inoperable vehicles will have been moved to secure locations either in the hopes of refurbishing them or cannibalizing them for spare parts. Milgov may find the occasional bulldozer that only needs fuel and a few parts, but these will be few and far between. CINCLANT isnt going to share histhe narrative makes that plain. Communities outside the Virginia and southern New Jersey enclaves might be coerced into giving up their vehicles, operable or otherwise, but acquiring them will be a time-consuming process. Hulks that can be reclaimed generally are going to need a lot of work. I dont just mean a tune-up. Parts are going to have to be fabricated. If this were easy and practical with the infrastructure that the Europe veterans find upon returning to CONUS, it would have been done already. Im not saying all of this cant be done. I am saying that the idea of scrounging enough equipment to equip several heavy junk battalions (and Seabees, too) in 2001 and doing it all within a couple of months of the arrival of the Omega convoys is at best a very tall order. If the Omega people had been able to bring all of their machine shops, machine tools, and other gear from Germany, wed still be talking about reassembling the shops, collecting abandoned gear, trouble-shooting, triaging, and maybe getting some of the more operable gear back on-line. After that, parts have to be fabricated for the middle group of the triage process. Complicate the situation with the fact that the Europe vets have returned with little more than their rifles and rucksacks, and we have a major bottleneck in the process of recovering heavy equipment of any kind. What machine shops are available in eastern Virginia are being used. Its conceivable that agricultural output is so low that the all-important machine operators arent being replaced as they die, desert, or whatever. In this case, it might be possible for some of the returning veterans who are properly trained to fall in on operable but untended machines. Otherwise, they are going to have to locate operable or repairable machines and machine tools outside the Virginia area of control, recover those items, and then start using them. This can be done, but the process wont happen overnight. In short, while Navy technicians can be employed to run nuke plants and riflemen can round up former college professors, mechanics can do little without the tools of their trade. Recoverable heavy equipment of the type a heavy engineer battalion is going to use will have been worked over by the natives by 2001. Using the same infrastructure as the natives, the Europe vets are unlikely to be able to revolutionize the availability of dozers, graders, and backhoes. They have a long road ahead of them.

Webstral

[natehale1971]

I hate to disagree with you Mr. Webstral,

But getting those tools and equipment won't really be all that hard... I served onboard an Aircraft carrier, and they have numerious mobile machineshops onboard. Also any vessel worth it's sea salt has their own machineshops as well (even fancy cruise liners) to allow them to fabricate spareparts in an emergency.

I know Operation Omega said that the PCs where only allowed to carry a small amount of personal gear with them, but all of the gear they brought was placed in a central location to be gone over and eventually turned over to the German government or for use by those US Army units that would be remaining in Europe... I have a feeling that the guys running Operation Omega would have the forethought of loading up at least half of the machineshops, tools and needed gear for when they get back to the states.

I know when we ran the 'homecoming' when our European Vets returned the the US, the powers that be had done that. And that equipment and personnel was used as the core of the MilGov reconstruction effort.

But back to the navy vessels and their machineshops... there are storage depots all across the country with construction equipment and supplies set aside for emergencies. I remember reading a FEMA Report about what was suppose to happen after a nuclear exchange. FEMA had the right to reallicate any and all natural resources.

Including Human resources.

If a husband was an engineer and the wife was a nurse, and they needed nurses on the east coast and engineers on the west coast... The family would be broken and the husband sent to the west coast to do engineering work while the wife would be sent to the east coast to do nursing. And their children would be sent off to a DP internment / education camp adminstered by the Federal Government.

I have a feeling that CivGov would be following those recovery plans, and causing a great deal of resentment. And as long as MilGov wouldn't do draconian things like that... They wouldn't have the possibilities of disgruntaled survivors rioting.

In our campaign MilGov wouldn't transfer people like that unless they couldn't find someone else in the region that could do the job, or be trained to do the job. We had alot of currupt politicos running CivGov in our campaign, who spent most of their time increasing their own personal power instead of worrying about the locales they where suppose to be representing. It was the ture representatives of the people inside CivGov that would be responsible for the reproachment between CivGov and MilGov that mirrored the way the NVA and DBW worked together to launch the surprise attack on the Soviet Forces in Germany... But that degresses...

[Legbreaker]

I'm far from convinced adequate numbers of trained personnel would be available.

Firstly, there's been a war on for about 5 years. Many of the technicians could have been drafted, or simply run for the hills at the first sign of nuclear weapons. With the training they've had, they're more than aware of the effects of radiation exposure and just how much systems could have been effected by EMP and several years shut down without maintenance.

Those drafted are likely but by no means guarenteed of a position on a nuclear vessel. These vessels had been in constant heavy battle up until "the last major fleet in being" was destroyed. This canon statement says to me that there aren't a lt of ships still floating about, and therefore, chances are the crews were also destroyed. Those drafted after the ships had been sent to the bottom may well have been posted to combat units, or rear area units which we've established in other threads, were likely to have been hit very hard in the nuclear exchanges.

Yes, there was supposedly a large number of replacement crew, however, ships do take damage in battle and crew are much harder to repair than a bulkhead door. It is also likely that nuclear weapons were used against enemy warships, so even if the vessel survived, the crew is likely to have been exposed to high levels of radiation - a few days, weeks (or in some poor souls cases) months of agony later....

Those that avoided military service and probably death or injury, were exposed to everything the civilian population suffered through. Nuclear attack, radiation fallout, brutal winter, disease, famine, riots, etc. Just because they had prewar value as specialists, doesn't mean they'd be worth more than another mouth to feed post nuke.

Now, as to prepositioned supplies and equipment. Yes, FEMA may well have them in place today however we're talking about several years into a nuclear war. Those stocks, if they hadn't been looted already, would have been stripped bare by the emergency services in the immediate aftermath of the exchange. Any crumbs left over is likely to have been shipped overseas to support the war effort.

Yes, modern warships do have machineshops, etc, but warships, or shipping of virtually any kind is either non-existant in 2000 (on the bottom of the ocean) or simply doesn't have the fuel/lubricants/spare parts/crew/etc to get to where it's needed.

Operation Omega limited equipment to only 100kgs per person. This is not only due to limited troop space on the available shipping, but also due to the limits of the ships themselves. The ships involved are almost certainly only whatever could be found still capable of floating - this means they were not bulk carriers, vehicle transports, container ships, etc. Try getting a ten tonne earthmover into a ferry...

Yes, some heavy equipment would have been taken, but bear in mind that all heavy equipment was promised to the Germans in exchange for ships, use of port facilities (which again were damaged and unlikely to handle loading of heavy equipment) and most importantly, fuel oil! If the Germans got even the slightest hint that the US was trying to renege on the deal, there's a good chance there'd be some serious friction....

[natehale1971]

We know that several capitol ships had survived with the carriers operating in the middle east... So it's not that hard to believe that there might be more out there as well. It's hard to sink a carrier (not impossible)... And your statements about auxilary crews are pretty good. But the Navy would have those crews not actively onboard a vessel doing something onshore... it's quite possible that majority of MilGov management is currently being taken care of by USAF and USN personnel.

FEMA depots are located all over the place, set up to survive a nuclear exchange. The Allegany Uprising touches on one such locale. It's not hard to imagine that there are more out there waiting to be discovered.

When i did my CBR warfare training, they talked alot about the FEMA plans post-nuclear exchanges. While FEMA had the right to redistribute human resources, they where not allowed to mess with Department of Defense Personnel, past or present. Veterans and their dependents are technically off-limits to the FEMA relocations like i mentioned earlier. But with the MilGov/CivGov spilit this can possibly be thrown out the window depending on the local adminstrator/supervisors.

The Shipyards have MASSIVE amounts of mobile machineshops, and other things that would be very important in reconstruction.

Yes there are alot of heavy equipment will need to be salvaged and refurbished, and it can take a while to get done. But it's not been said not to have been happening during the years since the nuclear exchanges. One of the things that really got me about T2k was that they really didn't focus on the fact that the local communities would have started rebuilding as soon as the dust settled from the nuclear exchanges. That's one of the reasons i really liked the first season of the TV Show Jericho (the second season just totally blew, and in a bad way).

If i remember right, the heavy equipment promised to the Germans was military hardware. And the writers had the PCs having to give up that extra gear was to seperate them from all the fancy toys they had acquired during play in Europe.

Giving all the military weapons and equipment was the price of all those ships, but machineshops and other supplies that would be needed back in the states would have been something I feel that the US Army Europe would have wanted to keep at least SOME of the stuff since they needed it just as well. And since they menentioned in "Going Home" that the French wasn't to happy that the US was giving all that military hardware to the Germans, made me wonder why the official module didn't have the French doing more to stop it from happening. Thus our campaign had the French launching a surprise attack on the staging areas of Bremenhaven in an attempt to destroy all that military hardware so the Germans couldn't get their hands on it. Thus the Month long engagement of all of the US, British and German forces located in the area pushing the French out of the German and Dutch Rhineland... But i degress.

there is alot of varibles we wheren't given by the T2k writers dealing with what went on behind the scenes of the evacuation of Europe, nor with the 'return to europe' series of modules... So there is alot of leaway for the DC group to develop things with how they've been doing.

[Targan]

I like the DC Working Group's work but I still have major concerns about the large numbers of operating naval vessels including nuclear powered vessels that they posit.