And where did the United Nations go?

[WallShadow]

I seem to recall a few mentions of the UN amongst the threads, but has the fate, disposition, and locale of the United Nations officials and personnel ever been really clarified

I mean we've got the big building on the East River in NYC, right across from the Roosevelt Island enclave and just couple of blocks east of Times Square. Did the diplomats just up and leave after TDM How did they get out Personal bodyguards or US-assigned security staff

[weswood]

Hopefully the cannibals got them.

[Tegyrius]

I'd expect a lot of them were recalled (or bugged out without instructions from their respective governments) once tactical nukes started flying in Europe and NYC started looking like a strategic target.

- C.

[Jason Weiser]

RDF Sourcebook has something to say on the matter:

On page 3 it says...

"Relations between Israel and Syria deteriorated rapidly.A Demilitarized zone(DMZ)had been established in the Golan Heights following the '87 war.This DMZ was occupied by a UN Peacekeeping Force. When the UN General Assembly fell apart in June of 1995, these troops were left out on a limb."

So, one can assume once things begin to go down the long slide of doom in China culminating in the August invasion, the UN loses relevancy and ambassadorial staffs are called home until what's left is a Third World debating society that drifts away as the chances for a negotiated peace become slimmer and slimmer.

[Raellus]

I've had a couple of Aussie players who wanted to play Australian PCs in a Poland-based campaign create characters who were UN troops abandoned on Cyprus when the baloon went up that somehow made their way to central Europe. It was a bit of a stretch but considering the famous story of the Korean teenager that ended up in the Wermacht on the Normandy beaches just in time for D-Day, just about anything's possible.

If you're unfamiliar with the story, this Korean kid was press-ganged into a Japanese labor unitin around '38 or so. He was captured by the Soviets during their brief [Manchurian] border war with the Japanese army in '39. He was then pressed into service in the Red Army and subsequently captured by the Germans when they invaded the USSR in '41. He was then placed into a Wehrmacht Ost battalion and sent to France in '44, where he was subsequently captured by an Allied unit. What a trip!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I've had a couple of Aussie players who wanted to play Australian PCs in a Poland-based campaign create characters who were UN troops abandoned on Cyprus when the baloon went up that somehow made their way to central Europe. It was a bit of a stretch but considering the famous story of the Korean teenager that ended up in the Wermacht on the Normandy beaches just in time for D-Day, just about anything's possible.

If you're unfamiliar with the story, this Korean kid was press-ganged into a Japanese labor unitin around '38 or so. He was captured by the Soviets during their brief [Manchurian] border war with the Japanese army in '39. He was then pressed into service in the Red Army and subsequently captured by the Germans when they invaded the USSR in '41. He was then placed into a Wehrmacht Ost battalion and sent to France in '44, where he was subsequently captured by an Allied unit. What a trip!

There were like 5 of them, an entire squad, but yeah, that was a real mind-scrambler. I wonder what became of them I'd imagine if they made it back to Korea they were likely called up for service in '49 and ended up fighting for or against the US (again).

[Olefin]

If you look at the NATO vehicle guide it also mentions UN troops in Ceylon and shows a Canadian vehicle found there - which may imply some UN troops stayed on mission even after the UN fell apart.

[Targan]

As I recall, nearly every discussion we've had about the UN on this forum and its predecessor has ended with multiple posters engaging in highly derogatory comments about the (RL) UN and generally making the entire discussion so unpleasant that it's fizzled out or had to be curtailed by the mods or the administrator. I'd love to hear peoples' views on the fate of the UN and its staff and representatives in the Twilight War but I'm going to be deeply disappointed if this discussion goes the same way that all the others did.

Remember, we're discussing the UN and its demise in an alternate universe, not this one. Please try not to colour posts with any RL dislike or contempt of the UN on the part of posters here. Then we'll have a happy Targan

[Rainbow Six]

RDF Sourcebook has something to say on the matter:

On page 3 it says...

"Relations between Israel and Syria deteriorated rapidly.A Demilitarized zone(DMZ)had been established in the Golan Heights following the '87 war.This DMZ was occupied by a UN Peacekeeping Force. When the UN General Assembly fell apart in June of 1995, these troops were left out on a limb."

So, one can assume once things begin to go down the long slide of doom in China culminating in the August invasion, the UN loses relevancy and ambassadorial staffs are called home until what's left is a Third World debating society that drifts away as the chances for a negotiated peace become slimmer and slimmer.

Thanks for posting that. I knew there was a quote somewhere in one of the books to that affect, but the source of it has been bugging me for ages (I thought it was in Armies of the Night...)

The UN has a significant presence in Switzerland, so it's possible that a decision may have been taken to temporarily relocate the General Assembly from New York, which is in a belligerent nation, to Geneva, which is in a non belligerent, after the US entered the War (but presumably before the nuclear exchanges escalated to the point where such a move would not be logistically possible).

Are there any references to the UN in Armies of the Night

[Ironside]

It went where the League of Nations went to . . .

[Legbreaker]

I could swear we discussed the UN in an earlier thread but for the life of me I can't find it!
I think there were a few options put forward for where it as an organisation might relocate to. Switzerland, France, and Australia were put forward as options I think.

Although the books indicate the UN basically fell apart, it's my opinion it simply lost relevancy and influence as conditions throughout the world grew worse. The entity itself may have lost a few members and certainly have been ignored on an increasing level, but I can't see any country simply withdrawing completely and not paying at least lip service to it (what's it really cost to have a representative or two in attendance).

With the US entry into the war, pressure may have increased to move the UN's HQ to a neutral state - France, Switzerland and Australia (amongst others) would seem ideal. France and Switzerland however would loose most of their appeal once nukes began to be used - nobody wants to be around when there's the possibility of fallout. The UN may have relocated again, or for the first time to the southern hemisphere (can't think of any northern hemisphere countries which would have been perceived as safe).

[Rainbow Six]

I could swear we discussed the UN in an earlier thread but for the life of me I can't find it!
I think there were a few options put forward for where it as an organisation might relocate to. Switzerland, France, and Australia were put forward as options I think.

That rings a bell with me as well, although like you I can't find it which makes me wonder if we're getting mixed up the dicussion about where the Pope went(granted I haven't had an in depth hunt)

Although the books indicate the UN basically fell apart, it's my opinion it simply lost relevancy and influence as conditions throughout the world grew worse. The entity itself may have lost a few members and certainly have been ignored on an increasing level, but I can't see any country simply withdrawing completely and not paying at least lip service to it (what's it really cost to have a representative or two in attendance).

I'd agree with that...

With the US entry into the war, pressure may have increased to move the UN's HQ to a neutral state - France, Switzerland and Australia (amongst others) would seem ideal. France and Switzerland however would loose most of their appeal once nukes began to be used - nobody wants to be around when there's the possibility of fallout. The UN may have relocated again, or for the first time to the southern hemisphere (can't think of any northern hemisphere countries which would have been perceived as safe).

I would favour Switzerland for any relocation prior to the first use of nukes. It's the only candidate that could be argued as having a long history of pure neutrality and there are already UN offices in situ (other possibilities might be Stockholm, Sweden or even Dublin, Ireland). After the nukes start flying it's probably debatable whether a further relocation to Australia would be logistically possible.

Ultimately I would go for the UN relocating from New York to Geneva in early 1997 and still being in situ in Geneva in the summer of 2000, although having absolutely no influence / relevancy (to borrow Leg's words) and probably precious few members.

[Legbreaker]

Most of the arguments regarding the Popes location apply equally well for the UN.
My guess is that the moment tac nukes start being used in Europe, the UN would up and move as fast as they possibly could. We are after all talking about politicians with a keen desire to keep their own butts as safe as possible and with the resources behind them to make it happen there and then.
Given the US didn't enter the war until late 1996, and nukes were used only 8 months later, my guess is that progress on relocating to Switzerland probably hadn't been completed. A rapid change in destination isn't too hard to imagine.

Perhaps New Zealand would be a good place to go since Australia was at war with Indonesia New Zealand probably sends troops to Korea in support of the UN operations there too.

[Olefin]

South America could be a good place to go to as well - i.e. Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Ecuador all come to mind as places that are very unlikely nuke targets (Venezuela had to be hit for its oil)

If you want to relocate to the Pacific how about Tonga or if you want to stay in French territory Tahiti (I can see a lot of hands going up on the vote for relocation to Tahiti)

[Raellus]

South America could be a good place to go to as well - i.e. Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Ecuador all come to mind as places that are very unlikely nuke targets (Venezuela had to be hit for its oil)

Although I agree that these countries are unlikley to be nuked, South America has quite a few strategic targets worth considering. Ecuador has quite a few active oilfields on the Amazon side of the Andes. Montevideo (Uruguay) is a port city (Buenos Aires is on the other side of the River Plate). I've lived in both Ecuador and Uruguay. Chile has a lot of big active mines. I couldn't speak to Paraguay's strategic value.