Second Battle for Berlin: December 1996

[Rainbow Six]

If it's any help I tried to account for the Berlin Brigade as follows when I put together a global orbat for summer 2000 as part of my alternative survivor's guide:

Armoured Sqn - destroyed during the battle. Handful,of surviving personnel rejoined their parent unit in early 97

Three inf Bns - 1 Kings, 1 R Anglian, 1 Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regt.

1 Kings was hit hardest and was down to an under strength company by early 97. Survivors merged with 5/8 Kings, a TA Bn with BAOR reinforcement role which was then renumbered as the "new" 1st Battalion (thus removing 5/8 Kings from the Army list)

Next hardest hit was 1 RAR which I put down as having 70% casualties. 1 DERR I had with 40% casualties (all back of envelope jottings, no scientific reasoning to them).

1 RAR and 1 DERR were both rebuilt (1 DERR relatively quickly in Germany, 1 RAR rather more slowly in the UK). Once back to full strength they were assigned to other Brigades (1 DERR went to the 5th Division when it was formed).

I didn't go into detail with regard to the various support arms, I just assumed the Berlin units would be disbanded and survivors would be assigned to other units at the start of 97.

Hope that helps...

[HorseSoldier]

With the US Berlin Brigade, I would guess that given the relative commitment to units and sentimentality in the US military that in the aftermath of the battle, any remnants would have been disbanded and surviving personnel primarily used as battle casualty replacements for other USAREUR units. Some personnel fit for duty and guys wounded but eventually able to return to duty might have been posted back to training units or to mobilizing Reserve/Guard units (so participation in the fight could possibly be part of a character or NPC back story). The subordinate battalions might have been slated for reconstitution from scratch back in CONUS and maybe turned up in the order of battle for one or more of the late war USAR light divisions.

[Jason Weiser]

Here is a thought, how much could the Soviets spare to neutralize Berlin Sure, they're rolling up the Bundeswehr and their East German allies, but that's a rather large fight, and that's before the US, British and Canadians come rolling into the fray. And consider, most Soviet warplans had the East Germans taking primary responsibility for the reduction of West Berlin in the first place. There was a good article in Armor magazine about the whole thing....the title doesn't come to mind.

So, that could leave us with the East German units charged with the reduction of West Berlin are instead fighting it out with the Soviets for control of East Berlin, and then when it spills over and the US/Brits and Canadians join the war, the Berlin Brigade may instead, assault into the East to relieve the East German units still holding out It would make a very interesting role reversal.

The Soviets cannot spare 20th Guards Army to reduce the traitors in the East, as it's busy trying to hold off the West Germans. So what's left 1 Motor Rifle Brigade that was the Soviet presence in East Berlin...so any fight for Berlin would probably be bloody and short, once NATO came into the war.

[Raellus]

Jason's assessment is why I think the Soviets would throw a thin cordon around the city to contain its defenders and concentrate its fighting forces further west against the Bundeswehr and, eventually the Americans and Brits. A direct assault would be costly both in terms of men and material, and in the court of public opinion as well. The Soviets can't afford either of those early on, so a siege makes more sense on nearly every level. This is not to say that the besieging force doesn't launch probing attacks or attempt to nibble away at the defenders- given enough time, the defenders would be seriously weakened. I just don't see an all out attack.

[dude_uk]

If it's any help I tried to account for the Berlin Brigade as follows when I put together a global orbat for summer 2000 as part of my alternative survivor's guide:

As ever great thoughts. That seems about right.


Raellus and Jason Weiser great thoughts! A cordon and the occasional raid into Berlin, would sap UK and US strength and morale. Hemmed in the Soviets probably can just use Artillery (Whatever they can spare) which will devastate the Allies.

[boogiedowndonovan]

I'm with Rae and Jason on the Pact not taking out West Berlin.

I'm interested in what West German paramilitary organizations would be available in West Berlin, including the polizei (police).

I found two interesting tidbits, the US had West German nationals serving in the 6941st Guard Battalion and the British had a unit of West Germans attached to 2 Regiment RMP, the 248 German Security Unit.

http://fsbvg.homestead.com/STNews.html

http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Berlin%20Brigade/USAREUR_Berlin%20Brigade.htm

Anyone know if the French had any similar organizations in West Berlin and what about the West Berlin PD

-bdd