Odd Military Facts....

[dragoon500ly]

Sarah Barnet Belcher, of Taunton, Massachusetts, USA is rather notable because no less than three famous personages of World War Two were her descendents.

As a result of their common ancestry through this woman, General Douglas MacArthur was an eighth cousin of Prime Minister Winston S. Churchill, and a sixth cousin of President Franklin D. Roosevelt....

And a tip o'the hat to "Dirty Little Secrets of World War Two"!

[WallShadow]

yeah, sure, but where does she fall on the "degrees of Kevin Bacon" scale

[HorseSoldier]

Sarah Barnet Belcher, of Taunton, Massachusetts, USA is rather notable because no less than three famous personages of World War Two were her descendents.

Making her the most famous resident of a New England town named after weird kangaroo/dall sheep hybrids from the planet Hof

[Canadian Army]

More Facts

The UK Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm used the Fairey Swordfish, a biplane design commissioned in 1936. It would have been helpless against enemy fighters (like most of the war's torpedo bombers), but it had an advantage against enemy AA: WWII rangefinders couldn't predict the flight path of anything that slow. Thus, attacks by Swordfish sank much of the Italian Navy in its home port of Taranto, and crippled the Bismark in its breakout attempt in the North Sea, both times with negligible British losses.

Nazi Germany assumed, at the beginning of the war, that horse cavalry were obsolete, but by 1942, they'd changed their minds. Infantry were too slow to catch Cossacks and mounted partisans, and tanks couldn't enter rocky ground and forests (which cavalry certainly could); the result was about ten divisions of German cavalry.

During the early stages of World War II, the Norwegians sank the heavy cruiser Blcher with weaponry which they'd bought decades before, and which was obsolete even then. The Norwegian commander wasn't sure that his fifty-year-old torpedoes would even work. They did.

Some Taliban snipers in Afghanistan use British Lee-Enfield rifles (or locally manufactured copies), which were designed in the 1880s and used in both World Wars. (A basically similar weapon chambered for NATO-standard battle rifle ammunition was in use by the British Army in the same role until relatively recently.) Their Iraqi counterparts prefer its Nazi rival, the Mauser Kar.98k (designed in 1935, as a cut-down version of the Mauser Karabiner model 1898).

In the Falklands War, the British took a WWII field kitchen truck from the Imperial War Museum and sent it along with the Task Force sent to fight off the Argentines, since there was no modern equivalent that could prepare hot meals in the field. This relic field kitchen even managed to land on East Falkland " which Argentina had already evacuated " before the Parachute Regiment, who had been tasked with retaking it.

Before they had their own defense industry (i.e., the Yom Kippur War and all previous conflicts), the Israelis relied on upgraded, surplus tanks. In the Yom Kippur War, they defeated state-of-the-art T-55s with heavily upgraded Shermans " proving that in the right hands and with the right modifications, even a thirty-year-old design that was never any good in the first place can defeat state-of-the-art technology.

During the Cold War, a squad of of SAS commandos were tasked with defending an Omani fort when they were suddenly attacked by hundreds of Communist guerrillas. In desperation, a couple of the SAS soldiers rushed over to a nearby shed that housed an antique WWII era anti-tank gun. They managed to get it working and it proved to be the deciding factor in the fight, buying them enough time for reinforcements to arrive.

During the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the mujahidin found that Stingers were not very useful (despite a few early successes), and preferred to fight Hinds with WWII AA guns.

The standard weapon issued to the Canadian Rangers (the militia force based in the Arctic) is the Mk 4 Lee-Enfield, first produced in 1939 and out of service with the regular Canadian military since the 1950s. The rifles are being replaced beginning in 2015...with another bolt-action rifle. The only reason the Mk4 is being replaced at all is that spare parts are running out.

The Soviet Union kept using vacuum tubes in its bombers long after the development of transistors, since vacuum tubes are resistant to EMPs and many kinds of electronic counter-measures (ECM).

During the initial stages of the Israeli War of Independance in '48, the Israeli supply situation was so bad that they even used Napoleonic-era, muzzle-loading cannons.

Blackburn Buccaneer a.k.a The Banana Jet. It was designed in 1954, and outlasted its all intended successors in both FAA and RAF use. It was finally withdrawn in 1994, because the airframes were too stressed to keep flying safely.

In the Korean War, North Korea used sea mines dating back to the Russo-Japanese War. (In fact, they're still using them.)

Most of the North Korean military carries equipment dating back to the 1970s or earlier. The forces deployed to defend the capital have more recent gear, but that's about it. Reportedly, some of their reservists don't even have firearms, and carry bladed weapons.

In 1807 the Ottomans loaded some giant cannons that had been collecting dust since the fall of Constantinople almost four centuries earlier and used them to repel a British attack on the Dardanelles. It worked.

The four Iowa-class battleships have been mothballed, and recommissioned, twice. And Congress wouldn't let the navy get rid of them completely, until the early years of the 21st century. All four are now gone, but are now literal museum pieces, as they have been made into floating museums (the Iowa in Los Angeles, the New Jersey in Camden, New Jersey, the Missouri in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and the Wisconsin in Norfolk, Virginia). After the release of Battleship, Slate ran an article positing whether or not it would be possible to return the Iowa-class battleships to active duty now that they're museum ships. It would actually be very easy, assuming that enough crew, fuel, and ammunition for its main guns are on hand for that.

The Korean People's Air Force has a small number of relatively modern fighter jets, including the MiG-29. They also operate many older airplanes. Including around thirty MiG-15s, as in the fighter jet they flew in the Korean War, although their remaining MiG-15s are all trainers.

The Antonov An-2 Colt transport, the smaller Russian cousin to the equally universal DC-3; is hard to pick up on radar, is so slow that modern fighters have trouble engaging it with guns, and it can take off and land from improvised air strips, making it an ideal commando or officer transport. For the same reasons, around ten are also used by the South Korean Air Force. Outside of the two Koreas, even smaller European countries like Estonia, Moldova and Macedonia also operate the An-2 as a paratrooper plane. And while fighting the Serbs in the early 1990s, Croatians even used them as improvised bombers to take out Serbian armoured vehicles and fortifications. While one or two were shot down, the plan worked.

Suggested but averted by Benjamin Franklin during the American Revolution. The Battle of Bunker Hill ended with them being driven off when they ran out of ammunition. Franklin suggested that if they had used bows and arrows, they could have held out longer and fired off volleys more rapidly. It may be possible that this referred more to the fact that at the start of the Revolution, the colonists were desperately short of gunpowder. At one point, there were literally only a few dozen barrels left for the entire army, which would have been just enough for one pitched battle without artillery. The situation did improve later on, when France became heavily involved in the war and started sending over regular supplies of the stuff.

English officers had been proposing this on and off throughout the 18th century. Trained longbowmen couldn't be beaten for sheer volume of fire until the introduction of breach-loading mechanisms and metallic cartridges; the catch is the "trained" part.

The first operational SR-71 was retired to the National Museum of the United States Air Force in the 70's, only to be put back into service for 20 years and permanently retired in 1990. But perhaps the retirement was premature, since the plane broke an air speed record on the way to the museum.

When British firefighters went on strike in 2002, the Army was called upon to provide cover. They made extensive used of "Green Goddess" fire engines, built in the 50s and mothballed in the late 60s. The law has now been changed so in a future strike, the Army would have access to the fire brigade's equipment, and the Green Goddesses have been sold to developing countries.

The Italian Air Force used the F-104 until 2004 in spite not only of the extreme age of the design (the airplane was first flown in 1954, with the Italian F-104S version being manufactured between 1964 and 1979) but of its tendency to crash. It helped it was actually faster than the more modern F-16 that had been considered to replace it in the 1980s...

During Homeland War, some Croatian units used M4 Sherman tanks and US WWII M36 Jackson tank destroyers. They proved effective in infantry support.

Some navies keep old 7.62mm chambered rifles on board in addition to standard 5.56mm for resupply at sea evolutions. The reason The 5.56mm blank cartridges are unable to propel the line far enough to reach the other ship.

The Finnish Army Field Kitchen, m/29 Soppatykki (Soup Cannon). Originally designed in 1929 for horse-drawn troops and be used with firewood, it is still in production, adapted to be towed by lorries and smaller motor vehicles. The redesign, m/85, is merely an incorporation and documentation of all changes and improvements on the original. Several of the WWII veteran field kitchens are still in use.

[HorseSoldier]

Suggested but averted by Benjamin Franklin during the American Revolution. The Battle of Bunker Hill ended with them being driven off when they ran out of ammunition. Franklin suggested that if they had used bows and arrows, they could have held out longer and fired off volleys more rapidly. It may be possible that this referred more to the fact that at the start of the Revolution, the colonists were desperately short of gunpowder. At one point, there were literally only a few dozen barrels left for the entire army, which would have been just enough for one pitched battle without artillery. The situation did improve later on, when France became heavily involved in the war and started sending over regular supplies of the stuff.

English officers had been proposing this on and off throughout the 18th century. Trained longbowmen couldn't be beaten for sheer volume of fire until the introduction of breach-loading mechanisms and metallic cartridges; the catch is the "trained" part.

I'd put the tipping point at the widespread switch to rifled muskets in the 19th century, but otherwise agree with that assessment -- weapons like the long bow or traditional Japanese bows outperform gunpowder weapons in a lot of ways for a couple centuries after matchlocks and then flintlocks become common place on the battlefield. The two edges firearms have is the noted comparative ease of getting good with them and that I believe there's something that inherently appeals to human being's inner monkey about being able to unleash thunder and lightning on our enemies.

[Legbreaker]

The standard weapon issued to the Canadian Rangers (the militia force based in the Arctic) is the Mk 4 Lee-Enfield, first produced in 1939 and out of service with the regular Canadian military since the 1950s. The rifles are being replaced beginning in 2015...with another bolt-action rifle. The only reason the Mk4 is being replaced at all is that spare parts are running out.

I've got two of the Mk3's here, re-barrelled and optimised for long distance shooting. Now if only I could find the time to get to the range, or a clock tower, whatever....

...I believe there's something that inherently appeals to human being's inner monkey about being able to unleash thunder and lightning on our enemies.

mmmm, big bang good!

[weswood]

human being's inner monkey about being able to unleash thunder and lightning on our enemies.

That goes back to flinging poo at enemies.

[Targan]

Some Taliban snipers in Afghanistan use British Lee-Enfield rifles (or locally manufactured copies), which were designed in the 1880s and used in both World Wars. (A basically similar weapon chambered for NATO-standard battle rifle ammunition was in use by the British Army in the same role until relatively recently.)

In the Australian Army too (until the 1980s IIRC).

During the Cold War, a squad of of SAS commandos were tasked with defending an Omani fort when they were suddenly attacked by hundreds of Communist guerrillas. In desperation, a couple of the SAS soldiers rushed over to a nearby shed that housed an antique WWII era anti-tank gun. They managed to get it working and it proved to be the deciding factor in the fight, buying them enough time for reinforcements to arrive.

I believe this Badass of the Week article tells the story of the battle to which you refer: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/takavesi.html

[dragoon500ly]

The West Point class of 1915 is nicknamed "The Class That Stars Fell On". Of the 164 members of this class, 61 attained the rank of general:

Two reached the Rank of General of the Army (5 stars): Eisenhower and Bradley

Two reached General (4 stars); 7 reached Lieuteant General (3 stars); 50 reached Major General/Brigader General.

The first one to reach general rank was Brigadier General Luis Raul Esteves of the Puerto Rican National Guard (1939)

[dragoon500ly]

With an active service life of some two hundreds day durning 1941, the HMS Prince of Wales, The UK's newest battleship, commissioned on March 31, 1941, took part in the pursuit of the German battleship Bismarck in May, carried Winston Churchill to the Atlantic Conference in August and was sunk in action by teh Japanese off Malaya on December 10.


source is "Dirty Little Secrets of World War Two"

[dragoon500ly]

The 3rd Infantry Division went ashore in North Africa in November 1942. Over the course of the next thirty months, it fought in Tunisia, Sicily, central Italy, Anzio, souther France, Alsace and Germany. This made the 3rd ID one of the five hardest hit divisions (3rd, 4th, 9th, 36th and 45th) of the war, which collectively ran through an average of 176% of their personnel during their time in the ETO. As a result, by the end of January, 1945, one company in the division had just 2 men left of the 235 whi had come ashore at Casablanca. One of them was the supply sergeant, the other was a young Texan named Audie Murphy who collected twenty-four decorations, including the Medal of Honor (and the most decorated soldier of WWII) as well as rising from the rank of Private to First Lieutenant.


source is "Dirty Little Secrets of World War Two"

[dragoon500ly]

The most expensive military decoration in history is the Soviet Order of Victory, which consists of a platinum star two inches across, enameled in blue and red and studded with 135 diamonds.

source is "Dirty Little Secrets of World War Two"

[Matt Wiser]

If it's military trivia you want, go on here:

http://www.strategypage.com/cic

They've got lots of little tidbits, like in #392, where WW II commanders and their "gals"....Marshal Zhukov, for one, had an affair with a female medical officer (who was his personal physican), as did Marshal Rokossovsky (who got his mistress pregnant, but did see to it that the female officer and the child were taken care of after the war), and Admiral Yamamoto's affair with Chiyoko Kawaii, his mistress from the early '30s (he wrote her daily as opposed to his wife, whom he wrote only weekly). And Omar Bradley would sometimes go off for a weekend with one or two WACs.... Then there's General (later Marshal) Pierre Koenig of France, who had a lengthy affair with Susan Travers, a British nurse who also served as his driver-and was enrolled as a warrant officer in the Foreign Legion and decorated with the Medaille Militaire, Legion D' Honneur, and Crox de Guerre, for service in Syria, North Africa, France and Indochina, often under fire.

Another tidbit: one was more likely to become a casualty in the Imperial Japanese Merchant Marine than in either the Imperial Army or the Imperial Navy.

The Germans sent an official protest to the U.S. Army in WW I, complaining about the Americans' use of Winchester 1897 shotguns for trench-clearing.

A German officer with dual British/German citizenship was awarded the "von" for his actions in suppressing the Maji-Maji revolt in German East Africa. He was killed in action at the Battle of Tanga in 1914, fighting against the British and Indian forces which landed there. His name: Tom von Prince.

Also from the East African Campaign: A British patrol and a German patrol are exchanging fire. An angry Rhino charges the British and sends them fleeing, then with total impartiality, charges the Germans and puts them to flight. The still enraged beast then turns and charges some Masai tribesmen who had been merely watching the action, killing one.

A platoon of Canadians during the defense of Hong Kong in 1941 was initially barred from taking up defensive positions at Stanley Barracks, due to the fact that their assigned position was the Officer's Mess.

In WW II: the U.S. Navy allowed ship's mascots to be awarded the rank of Petty Officer 3rd Class, and several at the end of the war had advanced to CPO grade.

When the German raider Pinguin captured a British passenger-cargo ship west of Australia in December, 1940, among the passengers were seven women. The raider captain, not expecting such passengers, had one of his officers go back aboard the ship before it was sunk to get the ladies some clothes. That officer's qualification for the job Prewar, he'd been a traveling salesman specializing in ladies' underwear.

The mascot of the 4th Marine Regiment, a bulldog adopted in Shanghai, was the only four-legged POW recognized by the U.S. military in WW II. Soochow was the dog, and he was inducted into the USMC as a Private in 1938. He was a Corporal on Corregidor in 1941-42, and went into captivity when the island was surrendered. Several Marines took care of the dog, even giving the dog their own rations-and keeping other hungry POWs away from the dog. He was liberated in 1945 from Bilbid Prison in Manila, and became the mascot for the USMC Recruit Depot in San Diego. When he died in 1947, he was a Sergeant, and was buried with full military honors.

A number of dog handlers in Vietnam, whose dogs were killed in action, insisted on their dogs being given military honors when the dogs were buried-usually at remote firebases or SF camps. (In Iraq, the same thing happened on several occasions, and thus the only Americans buried in Iraq were those working dogs who were killed in the line of duty)

[Snake Eyes]

Any mention in any of those weird fact sites about an Allied destroyer or submarine being sunk by a shore-based German tank off the Atlantic coast of France during WWII We covered that incident in a high school history class but I'll be dammed if I can find a source for it.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Any mention in any of those weird fact sites about an Allied destroyer or submarine being sunk by a shore-based German tank off the Atlantic coast of France during WWII We covered that incident in a high school history class but I'll be dammed if I can find a source for it.

Couldn't find that specific incident but I did find some others in a similar vein at ww2aircraft.net

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2-general/tank-sinking-ship-frigate-2415.html

Of particular interest in that thread is the British submarine HMS Safari that attacked a German transport ship unloading supplies on the coast of Africa. Allegedly one torpedo was fired and missed the supply ship but travelled up the beach and hit a German tank. While I can find details of the German supply vessels attacked, I can't find any references to the tank story except for the wikipedia entry and a Russian website that appears to have copied the wiki entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Safari_(P211)

http://www.royalnavy-nf.org/viewtopic.phpf=94&t=1894&sid=3cbf81901e6df54488a716950119c4e1&view=print

However, there is a 1999 book about HMS Safari called "Crash Dive" that "may" shed some more light on the alleged incident.

http://uboat.net/books/item/2003