You know what I wish had come to pass?

[Legbreaker]

Sorry mate, but that's not 100% correct - the 6th (United Kingdom) Infantry Division was formed from units in Hong Kong and sent into China, where it fought the Soviets alongside Chinese forces.

Neither is your statement I'm afraid.
The Chinese/Soviet war kicked off in 1995.
The UK 6th ID was formed in late 1996, and "eventually entered China". It is likely this movement to contact with the Soviets only occurred well after they'd had some training time to bring them up to speed with Divisional and about operations.
Therefore, it's quite likely, even probable, there's at least 18 months between the outbreak of the war and the first western (in this case still largely Gurkhas though) troops entering into combat.

In actuality, the UK 6th ID didn't do anything remotely useful until around the same time as the war in Europe kicked off (probably even later), rendering the whole "western meddling in China" propaganda idea moot.

[James Langham]

As a middle ground, maybe the 6th Division did not deploy for some time but elements did. After all the amount of troops is hardly likely to make a difference but a largely symbolic deployment of smaller specialist elements would be likely and possibly effective. In my background I initially used the 6th in an anti-SF role.

[James Langham]

Rainbow,

as ever a great write up.

I love the Major General, your in-jokes are as bad as mine. Does he have a scientific adviser

I would use the armoured white fist on black badge for the 6th (it is what is currently in use for the 6th in Afghanistan).

Maybe instead of SLRs the unit might use M16s that are likely to still be hanging round there in stores as they were used for jungle warfare prior to the SA80 being introduced.

If you have no objection I may incorporate elements into my background (although I will have to change units e.g. 10 Para are involved in the Battle for Warsaw Airport in my history).

I envisioned a Long March back to Nepal for the unit after everything finally collapses. this might make a great game or even a wargame campaign.

Sorry mate, but that's not 100% correct - the 6th (United Kingdom) Infantry Division was formed from units in Hong Kong and sent into China, where it fought the Soviets alongside Chinese forces.

Given that Hong Kong would still have been a British Crown Colony at the time, I think it would be a logical port for supplies to enter the PRC through (on the grounds that the Soviet Navy couldn't actually attack it during 1995 / most of 1996) so I think it's quite possible that numbers of US "technical advisors" might have been in Hong Kong - some of them could well have become attached to the 6th UK Division after things kicked off in Europe.

Attached draft document expands very slightly on the idea (I think I posted a version of it before - it's been kicking around in my "to be completed pile" for ages)

[natehale1971]

Sounds like a possible commission for Nate

I'd love to...

But my artstyle wouldn't capture the feel that he'd be going for. but there IS someon on deviant art whose style is exactly what he's looking for. If i had the money, i'd be commissioning alot of various propaganda posters for some of my own setting books i've been wanting to do for over a decade.

[Rainbow Six]

Sorry for slow response...have been away on holiday for the last ten days.

Rainbow,

as ever a great write up.

I love the Major General, your in-jokes are as bad as mine. Does he have a scientific adviser

I would use the armoured white fist on black badge for the 6th (it is what is currently in use for the 6th in Afghanistan).

Maybe instead of SLRs the unit might use M16s that are likely to still be hanging round there in stores as they were used for jungle warfare prior to the SA80 being introduced.

If you have no objection I may incorporate elements into my background (although I will have to change units e.g. 10 Para are involved in the Battle for Warsaw Airport in my history).

I envisioned a Long March back to Nepal for the unit after everything finally collapses. this might make a great game or even a wargame campaign.

I actually felt rather guilty about giving the Brig such a bit part role in my T2k World! Re: the patch, I took that from wikipedia.

Feel free to use / adapt as you wish. It was originally written to be relatively canon compliant (as opposed to fitting with my alternative SGUK, which ahs no 6th Division) although I did use the Royal Scots as the UK resident Battalion, which is (I think) the only deviation. To make it 100% canon compliant that would need to be changed - iirc one Battalion of the Scots Guards are missing from the canon orbat so would fit just as well (IRL the last resident British battalion was 1st Battalion, Black Watch - my cousin did his 22 years with them and took part in the handover ceremony

M16's work...may expand on this article at some point and will incorporate that if I do...

Hey Rainbow, yes I believe you did post your 6th Infantry Division write up before, but regardless, still a good doc.

Its been discussed before that Hong Kong and Macau would be two ports open during the Sino-Soviet fighting. And as a British colony, no doubt that the CIA and US military would be present.

two points about the 6th Infantry Division write up.

First, the Number 7 Intelligence Company. While 7 is a lucky number in Chinese culture, 8 is also a lucky number which in Cantonese sounds very similar to fortune (ie good fortune), Number 8 Intelligence Company because of the good intel they bring in Or how about number 4 which is bad luck because it sounds like the Chinese word for death. It might spook the more traditional Chinese, but for the more westernized Hong Kongers and any British the Number 4 "Death" company might sound fearsome. Maybe not suitable for an Intelligence gathering unit but possibly for a combat arms unit.

Also, I've been doing some gathering of information on Hong Kong for my own t2k write up (which will probably never get done) but I was thinking about fleshing out the number of ethnic Chinese personnel that would be part of 6th ID. Hong Kong in 1996 had an estimated 1.4 million males fit for military service so there is a definite manpower pool that can be drawn upon to fill out 6th ID. Equipping and training this many is another question of course, but even a small fraction of 1.4 million will go a long way. What about adding a second or even third Hong Kong infantry battalion Good call on the Royal Hong Kong Regiment being a recce unit, in my campaign they get reflagged as an infantry regiment and 2 additional battalions get added. The recce unit is renamed to something else (not sure what). Also as there is a 1.4 million manpower pool to draw from, one thing I was toying with was 41st Commando and a Para battalion filled out with Hong Kongers and stiffened with British NCOs and officers.

just a thought,
-bdd

I don't think a second HK Infantry Battalion is out of the question. Hong Kong also had (indeed still has) a relatively large and well equipped / armed civilan police force, the Royal Hong Kong Police, which consisted almost entriely of ethnic Chinese (historically senior officers were British, although in the years before handover that was changing, with more Chinese being appointed to senior positions).

With regards 7 Company, main reason I chose seven was (I believe) it symbolises togetherness, which I thought worked for a combined UK / Chinese unit.

I have used a certain degree of artistic licence though for there already was a Seven Int Coy in the Cold War British Army orbat, which was based in Germany as part of the BAOR (Eight Int Coy was based in England). As far as I know any new units would have to have a number of Ten or higher (excluding Twelve and Fourteen, which were assigned to Northern Ireland).

I think 88 would probably work. Again, will look at that for a possible future second draft.

Neither is your statement I'm afraid.
The Chinese/Soviet war kicked off in 1995.
The UK 6th ID was formed in late 1996, and "eventually entered China". It is likely this movement to contact with the Soviets only occurred well after they'd had some training time to bring them up to speed with Divisional and about operations.
Therefore, it's quite likely, even probable, there's at least 18 months between the outbreak of the war and the first western (in this case still largely Gurkhas though) troops entering into combat.

In actuality, the UK 6th ID didn't do anything remotely useful until around the same time as the war in Europe kicked off (probably even later), rendering the whole "western meddling in China" propaganda idea moot.

Yep. I don't think I said anywhere that the 6th Division entered China prior to the start of the War in Europe, either in my post or in the write up. In fact the write up specifically states that the 6th Division wasn't formed until the end of 1996 and didn't leave the Hong Kong area until May 1997 (which fits with your statement about there being at least 18 months between the outbreak of war (assuming you mean the Sino Soviet War) and the UK sending troops into China - Aug 95 to May 97 is 21 months). I've also made it quite clear in the writeup that the 6th Division is mainly (though far from exclusively) Ghurka, but nonetheless it is a part of the British Army.

Therefore not sure what inaccuracy / inaccuracies you're referring to.