OT Black Powder Weapons

[mikeo80]

I know this is a very well read and very well armed group.

Have any of you considered adding a black powder weapon to your personal "stash"

If so, what kind

Right now I am thinking about a .36 Navy Colt. Thoughts Comments

I am also looking at a 1861 Springfield Rifle. (Very far off in future right now)

I look at the Colt as a good back up if SHTF. Good size caliber, but something I can handle. It should stop most bad guys. Caps/balls/blackpowder/pyrodex are available right now. Cost is not too crazy. Could be used for hunting up to white tail deer. (I know I would have to get close. )

Looking forward to your observations.

My $0.02

Mike

[Grimace]

I think if I were to ever pick up a black powder weapon, I'd probably go with a flintlock pistol, maybe even a flintlock rifled musket. Why flintlock So if the SHTF, then I don't have to worry about manufacturing firing caps for a cap & ball weapon. Finding flint is a heck of a lot easier than finding the materials to make more caps.

Still, I think the .36 Navy Colt is a good idea. It's got some stopping power, provides multiple shots before needing to be reloaded, and is dependable.

[bobcat]

adding i'll have you know that i already have a kentucky long rifle in my house
although i wouldn't mind a few more, and the parts to keep them well maintained in the worst of situations. a black powder cannon would be kinda cool too even though it would be expensive to maintain it would make for an awesome fourth of july celebration.

[Graebarde]

I think if I were to ever pick up a black powder weapon, I'd probably go with a flintlock pistol, maybe even a flintlock rifled musket. Why flintlock So if the SHTF, then I don't have to worry about manufacturing firing caps for a cap & ball weapon. Finding flint is a heck of a lot easier than finding the materials to make more caps.

Still, I think the .36 Navy Colt is a good idea. It's got some stopping power, provides multiple shots before needing to be reloaded, and is dependable.

I like the flintlock for the same reason. Hawkins .54 would be the first choice. Now the other BP I would consider and have thought of would be rifles and pistols in .44-40 and .45-70. The only thing that makes these a problem long term is primers, stocking a couple cases of them would give more than you probably could use though. Don't forget the bullet molds and pot to melt the lead among other items used to reload.

[mikeo80]

I like the flintlock for the same reason. Hawkins .54 would be the first choice. Now the other BP I would consider and have thought of would be rifles and pistols in .44-40 and .45-70. The only thing that makes these a problem long term is primers, stocking a couple cases of them would give more than you probably could use though. Don't forget the bullet molds and pot to melt the lead among other items used to reload.

I was just reading about the Hawkins Rifle...Awesome weapon.

Now I am in a quandry. I was thinking about a Springfield 1861 as a BP rifle, Now I am looking at the Hawkins. I like the brute force method of the round ball. But I am also interested in the Minie. Both rounds are excellent game getters, man stoppers, and otherwise a good addition to the standard breechloaders that I have.....

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

adding i'll have you know that i already have a kentucky long rifle in my house
although i wouldn't mind a few more, and the parts to keep them well maintained in the worst of situations. a black powder cannon would be kinda cool too even though it would be expensive to maintain it would make for an awesome fourth of july celebration.

Is this what you mean

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=SbhSAyjeA74

My $0.02

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

Well, another good choice would be the recent release by Pietta of the Cavalry Model LeMat Revolver in .44-caliber/20 gauge, gives you 9 rounds and a load of buck or a slug. Retail price last time I checked was $825.00

Kirst & Strite also released a carbine version of the LaMat with a 23-inch barrel, but this one is a tad on the expensive side; it retails at $6,000.00

Another good choice is the Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading Fowler, this is a 20-gauge flintlock and fairly cheap at $1,000.00

You might also consider the Davide Perersoli Howdah. A howday is a double-barrel pistol in 20-gauge (you can fire the Hornady .570 ball), this was offered in the Cabela catalog last year and retailed for $600.00

Some other good chocies are the recent releases of the .45LC Walker Dragoon conversion ($425.00); the .45LC 1860 Army ($525.00); and finally the .45LC 1875 Remington Army ($629.00).

All of these are reproductions, but I've been hearing good reviews on all of them....and you really have to try the LeMat!!!!

[headquarters]

BP guns in game terms

I think in game terms about this and any real life consideration hat could be construed from my musings are purely coincidental

Although having something for all cicumstances is a good notion, I believe its better to have 3 guns with 10 000 rounds than 10 guns with 3 000 round. But having something if there are no rounds anymore is a good idea. A solid crossbow come to mind. A powerful slingshot for smallgame and birds too.

I believe BP guns would make a comeback to some extent. For one - making ammo can be done with a lot less resources than modern centerfire arms.

I have always been eyeing these:

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/mzModernFlint.php

but I live in a place where this would mean jumping hoops to such an extent that I probably could make one myself just as easily - starting with prospecting for a mine for iron ore..

Flintlocks have the advantages of few moving parts and no need for caps/primers which helps a little. That said, the firing caps fro percussion guns was invented around 1800 and produced from 1810. by 1840 it qas pretty common in military and civillian use.I guess caps can be a cottage industry as well as balls and powder ( I mean lead balls- - we are talking armament ccottage industry not the other type of cottage industry..those cottages have red lanterns marking them out).

BP cartridge guns might also be an option. BP doesnt wear the brass as bad if loaded moderately anyways, and if everything is maintained well etc etc. If someone was making fulminate caps and the brass was already available you could get a lot of use from a BP cartridge gun as well when the smokeless and nitrated modern stuff ran out. Many BP revolvers have extra cylinders available that allow you to change from a say .45 colt cartridge to a .44 cap n ball setup.

Going antique is definently an option - shooters can be had although the risk of getting a bomb instead of a gun is definently there An antique has other benfits as well, to do with the legal sides of things should guns for some reason be considered an offense by the local T2K warlord / agency in control of the area..

What BP gun to choose is done by defining POU - philosophy of use. Rifles, muskets,fowlers and musketoons/carbines are probably easier to hit something with than pistols. On the other hand carrying a pistol around is alot easier and its more handy in many situations.

I guess historical evidence say something about what works. I understand the typical trapper/frontiersman usually had some sort of rifled musket or similar. They could be used to hunt and for war. As for revolvers or pistols the wars from 16th century up until around 1885 give some indication as to what were the most functional arms.

I own two BP revolvers, a LeMat in. 44 and a Remington 158 also .44. Both Pietta replicas. Good quality imho. The LeMat was bought due to an infatuation wuith the design etc. The Remingtom because my reading suggested it was the better of the available cap and ball revolvers in terms of practical use in combat etc. Today I guess the Spencer& Rogers in .44 or the 1858 Starr would be my prime choices. Antique wise a Whitney .36 seems to be the pros choice.The Colts are prolific though, both replica and antiqus so thats a big plus for that option..

Buying a bullet mould is probably a good investment. Using an old can and some tire weights on a regular wood fire you can make bullets.

All of the above just my 2 cents - it is probably only worth 1 cent

[Olefin]

One way you could introduce more black powder guns into the game would be to have a town where a mfg of such guns is located be found by the players. It could be anything from a small mom and pop operation (think how the guns were made back in the 1700's where craftsmen basically made them one at a time) to a small factory turning out several dozen at a time. If you combine it with a mfg of black powder as well in the area you would have a situation where, at least locally, they go from rare to relatively common.

And the older designs, especially the Kentucky rifle, would be very good ones indeed for use by players in a situation where its either those guns or nothing - i.e. perhaps in a situation where they escaped from imprisonment and dont have anything on them other than a knife.

[Tegyrius]

Well, another good choice would be the recent release by Pietta of the Cavalry Model LeMat Revolver in .44-caliber/20 gauge, gives you 9 rounds and a load of buck or a slug. Retail price last time I checked was $825.00

If they offered this in .357 I'd be all over it. How do they get around the legal issue of LeMat reproductions being classified as short-barreled shotguns, though

- C.

[Apache6]

lever action rifles can be reloaded with black powder

In support of 'cowboy action shooting' I've seen lever action rifles reloaded with black powder. Weapons will function. Does require primers.

[headquarters]

BP - AR and AK

In support of 'cowboy action shooting' I've seen lever action rifles reloaded with black powder. Weapons will function. Does require primers.

You could reload AKs and ARs rounds with BP to. You would get totally new and poorer ballistics, and of course fouling would render the firearm clogged and useless for anything but manual operation like a bolt action relatively quickly. ( And maybe clog up that to eventually).

But it could still fire is what I am saying. As would most cartridge firearms.
stats would have to be changed alot - poorer range,pen etc. The smoke plume from shooting would be a huge "tell" in the terrain too.

But it would still go pop.

[weswood]

If you're talking about a sidearm with access to caps, I'd go with a Remington 1858. It's a full frame revolver (has the strap over the cylendar) in .36 or .44 caliber.

Long term hunting, I'd got with a .45 Hawkens or Kentucky rifle with a flintlock. With a .45 ammo will weigh less and if you have to pour your own, you'll get more round per pound of lead. You can use a heavier load of powder for larger game, a lighter load for smaller game.

It's been a while since I've shot mine (.45 Kentucky percussion) but I know SABOT and minnie rounds are available for the larger .50 & .54 calibers. Not sure of .45.

[pmulcahy11b]

All of the above just my 2 cents - it is probably only worth 1 cent

You're forgetting about inflation -- your 2 cents now goes for 6.294 cents on the international exchange.

[pmulcahy11b]

I have a very few blackpowder rifles and muskets on my site, and most of them are replicas or modern inlines. Might help somewhat (and I really would like help in getting the rules adaptations right).