OT Things that would never have happened

[mikeo80]

Olefin:

You could be very right. The election could have gone another way.

I am reminded of two past US Presidents in (somewhat) similar situations. They both won at the polls. I am thinking about Woodrow Wilson in 1916 and FDR in 1940. So it is possible that Bill would have President. (although, I shudder to think....)

Bin Laden did have his first big splash in Africa, but the Taliban was running wild in Afghanistan. The US might not have spared the effort to squash the Taliban, but it DOES pose an interesting idea to open a "front" on Russia's south side

Somali's. yes they do not get going until later, but I can still see the US sparing some strength to make sure that WHATEVER shipping is left DOES NOT get poached. (Personnaly, I do not buy the almost TOTAL destruction of USN as proposed by T2K, but that is MHO.)

My $0.02

Mike

[raketenjagdpanzer]

A huge part of Bin Laden's ire was US troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia after GW1. If we assume that didn't happen (GW1, I mean) then he might not be a player at all outside of Afghanistan.

On the other hand given the location and disposition of the RDF on the Arabian peninsula, he might be a HUGE problem in that region...

[Adm.Lee]

Looking past the President (Clinton or Dole), the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wouldn't be Gen. Cummings, but John Shalikashvili (1993-1997) and/or Hugh Shelton (1997-2001).


Shelton wasn't a Ranger on Grenada, but he was in SF for a while.

[Targan]

Well it's all Butterfly Effect isn't it Any number of small differences between the real universe and the T2K universe (any of the versions) could change who ascends to the top of the US military leadership in the decade leading up to the Twilight War.

[bobcat]

Some other things we would not have seen IF T2K happened.

7) Somali Pirates (IF they showed their pointy little heads, would be SMASHED in passing by US, UK, NATO, whatever)
8) Osama bin Laden, Taliban (Again, smashed by Western powers)

actually the taliban would have been an even bigger problem with the war justifying their presence in the region.

as for the pirates they are another result of the cold war. and would likely hit anything coming out of the gulf for the oil.

[Bullet Magnet]

Some other things we would not have seen IF T2K happened.


2) Teenage Moms

5) Retirement of Space Shuttles (Maybe even some new ones)

10) ALL of the damn Judge TV shows


These are a few off of the top of my head.

My $0.02

Mike

2) Teen pregnancy happened IRL long before the Twilight War. With economic and other conditions brought about by the war, I think a case could be made that teen pregnancy could increase; some girls might end up "doing what is necessary" just to get some food in her belly.

5) Again, economic conditions of the time and after the war runs down. I'd expect in the decade or two after the war ends, NASA would be running on a tight budget. However, I think as soon as monetary conditions allowed, the US would want to get back into that game, expecting the Soviets are doing the same.

10) Judge shows existed by the mid 1980s, I know because my ma used to watch a few of them back then.
What might be really great is a lessening of "trash TV", like Springer or Maury. I vaguely recall in the 90s Maury was at least trying to be respectable; of course now he only does shows with skanks who bring in a dozen or so guys trying to find the one who is the daddy.
Now I'm thinking what WOULD happen with TV during and after the war. Of course, areas hit by EMP would have lost the ability to watch, but what about the other areas I imagine once the daily toils of keeping alive were done for the day, people would be eager for anything to take their minds away from reality, if even for an hour.

[Bullet Magnet]

Olefin:

You could be very right. The election could have gone another way.

I am reminded of two past US Presidents in (somewhat) similar situations. They both won at the polls. I am thinking about Woodrow Wilson in 1916 and FDR in 1940. So it is possible that Bill would have President. (although, I shudder to think....)

My $0.02

Mike

Remember, while WW1 was going on at the time, the US did not enter it until 1917. Wilson actually ran on a platform of keeping the US OUT of the war. Of course, once he knew he had the job, he couldn't throw us into it fast enough.

As for Clinton, he'd have been on his first term at the time the US got involved in 1995 (v1 timeline), and we tend to not like changing leadership during wartime. Of course there'd be some claiming he got us into it deliberately for this reason, the fact is, if NATO looked to be on the road to victory as of election day in 96, he'd have won it.

[pmulcahy11b]

2)
5) Again, economic conditions of the time and after the war runs down. I'd expect in the decade or two after the war ends, NASA would be running on a tight budget. However, I think as soon as monetary conditions allowed, the US would want to get back into that game, expecting the Soviets are doing the same.

I think that the shuttle fleet would still be flying, and maybe even have an upticked flight schedule. But a majority of their flights would be military or partially-military.

Here's a possibility: a few new shuttles out west at Vandenburg.

And
11) Cooperation between East and West in space exploration.
12) Most civilian space research

[Schone23666]

Well, two things that definitely would not have happened (don't know if it was mentioned already)...Facebook, and Twitter.

Ugh, just mentioning the two gives me a headache.

[John Farson]

Well, two things that definitely would not have happened (don't know if it was mentioned already)...Facebook, and Twitter.

Ugh, just mentioning the two gives me a headache.

No great loss.

Anyway, here's my view on how the T2k US presidential election of 1996 would have gone with Clinton as president, going with the trope that Americans don't like to change horses mid-stream at a time of war, or when the US is threatened with war.

November 5th, 1996. The final United States presidential election before the nuclear war:



Bill Clinton 465 EV, 52,0% of the popular vote
Bob Dole 73 EV, 39,9% of the popular vote
Ross Perot 0 EV, 7,1% of the popular vote

In fact, Bill Clinton as POTUS and running in 1996 is perfectly logical if one goes by the Finnish T2k sourcebook, as the POD of that is in December 1993, when Clinton is already president.

[pmulcahy11b]

And don't forget the loss of most of those great toys the troops have nowdays.

[Schone23666]

And don't forget the loss of most of those great toys the troops have nowdays.

Jealous, much

[pmulcahy11b]

Jealous, much

You're damn right I am!

[stormlion1]

Sure there great toys, until the batteries die and you have to carry the dead weight along in a vain hope of getting new batteries.

[.45cultist]

If one uses the 2013 or later timelines, most of those would be stopped! Sparkly fallout, Beiber only existing on a few Ipods, no more wondering how Honey Boo Boo wins pageants,etc. The only good thing about the bombs and politicians is they and those who elect them suffer also-the "Tommy Atkins Syndrome" is burned away.