Gulf/Caribbean Naval Activity?

[dragoon500ly]

Here's a brief listing of some of the other players in the Gulf of Mexico/Caribbean (source is Combat Fleets of the World, 1993)

The Bahamas. The Police Marine Division operates 15 patrol craft.

Barbados. The Coast Guard operates four patrol craft.
Belize. Operates 2 patrol craft (36.5 tons and 1 12.7mm hmg) for Anti-drug, inshore patrol and SAR missions.

Bermuda. The Bermudian Police operate 2 patrol craft.

Brazil. While not a Caribbean nation, they are included due to the occassional "showing the flag" patrol that they conduct into the southern portions of the Caribbean. 1 aircraft carrier (6 S-2E, 4-6 SH-3, 2 UH-11 and 3 UH-12 helos), 1+6 German Type 209/1400 subs, 3 ex-British Oberon-class subs, 1 exUS Guppy III sub, 1 exUS Guppy II sub, 2 exUS Gearing FRAM I-class DDs, 4 exUS Allen M Sumner-class DDs, 2+2 Ihjauma-class FF, 6 British Vosper Thornycraft Mk10-class FF, 4 exUS Garcia-class FF, 9 Imperial Marinheiro-class corvettes as well as 2 exUS Thomaston-class LSD and 1 exUS De Sotp County-class LST.

Colombia. 2 German Type 209/1200-class subs, 4 FS1500-class FF, 1 exUS Courtney-class FF.

Costa Rica. Operates 6 patrol craft

Cuba. 3 Soviet Foxtrot-class SS, 3 Koni-class FF, 13 Osa II-class PGM, 4 OSA I-class PGM, 1 patrol boat, 9 Turya-class torpedo hydrofoils and 2 Polnocny B-class LSM

Dominican Republic. 1 ex Canadian River-class FF, 3 exUS Cohoes-class corvettes, 8 patrol craft.

El Salvador. 4 patrol craft.

Grenada. 1 patrol craft

Guatemala. 9 patrol craft.

Guinea. 9 patrol craft.

Guyana. 4 patrol craft.

Haiti. 10 patrol craft.

Honduras. 11 patrol craft.

Jamaica. 4 patrol craft.

Nicaragua. 22 patrol craft.

Panama. 1 patrol craft.

Saint Kitts. 2 patrol craft.

Saint Lucia. 2 patrol craft.

Saint Vincent. 2 patrol craft.

Trinidad & Tobago. 9 patrol craft.

Venezuela. 2 German Type 209/1300-class SS, 6 Italian Lupo-class FF, 2 Almirante Clemente-class FF, 23 patrol craft, 4 Capana-class LST, 1 exUS Terrebonne Parish0-class LST.

Western Virgin Islands. 1 patrol craft.

[kalos72]

That surely seems like enough fleet to have action...even if its just small skirmishes locally.

I would even imagine a good many of them still active, if not limited to fuel and crew. At this stage of the war, they would be prime assets.

[Olefin]

I am actually working on how the Royal Netherlands Marines and the Navy in the Caribbean may have reacted to the war and the invasion of the Netherlands by France - including some naval action in the Caribbean between them

[Rainbow Six]

I am actually working on how the Royal Netherlands Marines and the Navy in the Caribbean may have reacted to the war and the invasion of the Netherlands by France - including some naval action in the Caribbean between them

Would be interested to see what you come up with...it's something I've thought about a few times, especially somewhere like the island of St Martin, which is split between France and the Netherlands.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Barbados is a UK concern, but I can see it being basically neglected during the run up to '97 and then either left to wither and die (somewhat unlikely) or snapped up by the Franco/Belgians.

[kalos72]

Not sure if its a new thing but aren't there a fair amount of oil refinery/fields in the Caribbean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrotrin

[Rainbow Six]

Not sure if its a new thing but aren't there a fair amount of oil refinery/fields in the Caribbean

Trinidad and Tobago has fairly respectable oil reserves and a refinery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrotrin

Largest refineries appear to be on Aruba and Curacao, both of which are Dutch. Potentially they may have been large enough to warrant a nuke being dropped on them, but if intact and even semi operational could be of great interest to the French.

EDIT. We found the same link...

[Olefin]

Aruba and Curacao's refineries would be prime targets

Gateway to the Spanish Main lists Aruba as the target of the pirates once they had their ships ready - as in the oil rich island of Aruba - that implies the storage tanks and refinery may be intact there

but the omission of Curacao may be a real indication that it got nuked when Venezuela got hit - and considering how close it is that refinery (and the city surrounding it) probably got nailed

you could have a situation similiar to what spared Istanbul and Bremerhaven - i.e. the nuke went short or long and landed in the ocean and not on the island itself

[boogiedowndonovan]

Bermuda

Anyone remember the old Harpoon computer game A few of the convoy escort scenarios, I can't remember which, had the NATO convoys going as far south as the Caribbean.

The US, British and Canada had bases on Bermuda. I could see the personnel "stranded" on Bermuda during T2k.

US had NAS Bermuda, operating P3's and NF Tudor Hill listening post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Bermuda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USN_NAS_Bermuda/NAS_Annex,_Morgans_Point,_1941-1995

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Facility_Bermuda

According to the wikipedia article, Canadian CP-140 Aurora ASW aircraft periodically operated from NAS Bermuda.

British had HMS Malabar, supply station for the RN ship assigned to the Caribbean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Malabar_(shore_establishment)#HMS_Malabar

Canada also operated CFS Bermuda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFS_Bermuda

[kalos72]

Don't forget St Croix has a LARGE refinery as well...

With such a rich target environment, I would imagine the navies would keep active to some degree.

Or else there is a port somewhere with 3 OSA class patrol boats just looking for a new home. :P

[Apache6]

What to you think happened to the base at Gitmo

I don't think there is any cannon coverage. What do you think happened to the base at Gitmo

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I don't think there is any cannon coverage. What do you think happened to the base at Gitmo

Since no strikes are listed, if the Cubans declared neutrality possibly "nothing at all". Of course if the Cubans had an intact military and wanted to take Guantanamo bay back, without a supply lifeline to the US, post '97 there'd be little the detachment left behind could do.

I guess we'd have to consider what assets the Marines would leave there before we could make a judgement call.

[Targan]

Gitmo would be abandoned some time after late '97, surely The Marines are tough, heroic warriors, no doubt about it, but why hold onto the enclave when being overrun and cut off from resupply and reinforcement would be all but inevitable I don't think the USMC would throw lives away for essentially nothing.

[Rainbow Six]

I can't be 100% certain about this (don't have access to any of my T2K books at the moment) but going from memory I think it's stated in the V2.X Big Yellow Book that the United States evacuates all its personnel from Guantanamo some time after the 1997 nuclear exchange (can't remember when).

I think it's then stated that the Cuban military move in and take over the base (or what's left of it) although I'm less certain about that.

If anyone has a copy of the BYB to hand check the section towards the back that gives a brief overview of the global situation - that's where I think it's mentioned. Can't recall what else (if anything) that part of the book says about the Caribbean.

[kato13]

If anyone has a copy of the BYB to hand check the section towards the back that gives a brief overview of the global situation - that's where I think it's mentioned. Can't recall what else (if anything) that part of the book says about the Caribbean..

Here it is.

Guantanamo was evacuated by U.S. troops in 1999, and reclaimed by the Cuban military within days. It remains a major military cantonment.