Subways

[General Pain]

Subways has not been discussed in this forum. As I see it it is a excellent asset.

FOR PLAYERS:

Bombshelter
transportation
mobile hq
etc etc
u could probably hide a small factory in some of the bigger tunnels

FOR GMs:

the subways could be infested with all kinds of dangerous shit -
sewerpeople,scruffies,cannibals,mutants(if allowed), other armed enemies
angry rat swarms etc etc

subways also has quite a different look/feel after a nuke / conventional war has hit a city.The power is gone....

(sadly, in this picture the light fictures worked)

[General Pain]

[chico20854]

Subways has not been discussed in this forum. As I see it it is a excellent asset.

FOR PLAYERS:

Bombshelter
transportation
mobile hq
etc etc
u could probably hide a small factory in some of the bigger tunnels

FOR GMs:

the subways could be infested with all kinds of dangerous shit -
sewerpeople,scruffies,cannibals,mutants(if allowed), other armed enemies
angry rat swarms etc etc

In general, I agree except for one thing: flooding. Almost all modern subways require regular, reliable electrical power to keep them dry. The DC metro system (the second largest in the US, although far behind New York) was shut down a few years ago when power failed during a heavy rain storm. Within a few hours several stations were flooded with over a meter of water on the tracks. After months or years of no electricity (and no regular maintenance of the tunnels) I think the subways would be quite deadly, dark and dangerous underground rivers/lakes.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

In general, I agree except for one thing: flooding. Almost all modern subways require regular, reliable electrical power to keep them dry. The DC metro system (the second largest in the US, although far behind New York) was shut down a few years ago when power failed during a heavy rain storm. Within a few hours several stations were flooded with over a meter of water on the tracks. After months or years of no electricity (and no regular maintenance of the tunnels) I think the subways would be quite deadly, dark and dangerous underground rivers/lakes.

I wonder if most subways are like that. I assume Pittsburgh's joke of a subway needs to have pumps running as well, we have three rivers here plus a fourth underground one.

I've also heard that in an emergency, if you can open a manhole cover and go down, that could provide a quick bomb shelter. Trouble is, many cities are switching to locked manhole covers so that might not be an option, in fact, my millionaire (I'm part of the poor relations) cousin is involved in selling them.

Chuck M.

[General Pain]

In general, I agree except for one thing: flooding. Almost all modern subways require regular, reliable electrical power to keep them dry. The DC metro system (the second largest in the US, although far behind New York) was shut down a few years ago when power failed during a heavy rain storm. Within a few hours several stations were flooded with over a meter of water on the tracks. After months or years of no electricity (and no regular maintenance of the tunnels) I think the subways would be quite deadly, dark and dangerous underground rivers/lakes.

very inspiring...thax for that one...

but I guess it rains alot more in dc/ny than LA

[weswood]

Are there subways in LA I've never heard of any, and burrying a trian in an area known for earthqukes is questionable to me. But never been there, so I maight be wrong.

[kcdusk]

In twilight chronicles a few years ago now, i had a whole series of encounters planned to entice the PCs underground. I dont think we quite got there though.

But yes, in general, i think tunnels would be great for the reasons you mention. And even if there isnt anything you can see, its often the thought of "whats in the dark" that builds the tension.


There was that show on pay tv, and more recently on commercial tv in australia (where i seen it). It was called "Earth after humans" or something.

In it, they said the NYC subway system has 4 million gallons (!) of water pumped out of it each day.

I guess most subway systems, being underground, are "below the water line".


.

[kato13]

In it, they said the NYC subway system has 4 million gallons (!) of water pumped out of it each day.
.

The math nut in me had to do this, and I figured I would share.

Ok the New York Subway system has 443 miles of Track tunnels and about 300 miles of supporting tunnels. Assuming a diamter of 16 feet for the track tunnels and 7 feet for the supporting tunnels. Gives about 60,959,463 cubic feet. I am going to round up to 65 million including stations. A gallon is .133 cubic feet. So the system would have filled in approximately 122 days.

I would guess you could calculate other cities by comparing annual rainfall, but my guess is that most would be flooded by the time T2k rolls around.

[kcdusk]

I'm not arguing with your math kato. But i got the feeling from the show that the subway would fill with water within 7 days.

I quoted 4 million gallons below, but part of me is now thinking hte number was 13 million. It just sounds like so much water.

Even if after a few days there was a few inches of water, or ankle to knee high, it would make travel underground wet and discomforting. And once its at waist high, with water rats swimming around ... it'd be "shivver".

[kato13]

I'm not arguing with your math kato. But i got the feeling from the show that the subway would fill with water within 7 days.

I quoted 4 million gallons below, but part of me is now thinking hte number was 13 million. It just sounds like so much water.

The volume of the tunnels is also massive. I remember reading that the mass of everything put on Manhattan Island. The steel, concrete, asphalt, people, wood, cars, buses, trucks, and everything else does not equal the weight of the granite removed to make the tunnels. And if the number is 13 million gallons then number becomes 37 days. New York could easily get the average rain of 37 days in only 7 days.

[kato13]

Found this

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/inside-the-mtas-fight-against-subway-flooding/35672/

13 million on a dry day. So you could pretty much guarantee that it would be filled in a under a month (perhaps much under) if there was any appreciable rainfall.

[General Pain]

well...

I'm not arguing with your math kato. But i got the feeling from the show that the subway would fill with water within 7 days.

I quoted 4 million gallons below, but part of me is now thinking hte number was 13 million. It just sounds like so much water.

Even if after a few days there was a few inches of water, or ankle to knee high, it would make travel underground wet and discomforting. And once its at waist high, with water rats swimming around ... it'd be "shivver".

Think about the alternative...above ground (after about 8 nukes over 15 years) LA is populated by

-radioactive dustclouds
-various human mauraders,former militarycanibals,gangs,etc etc
-fire(s)
-oops forgot to say any people is probably armed with automatic rifles or the like...I could go on,...

I got the inspiration to this thread after looking at Los Angeles in Google Earth...

My plan was to get an escape route out of LA downtown...

[kcdusk]

Think about the alternative...above ground (after about 8 nukes over 15 years) LA is populated by

-radioactive dustclouds
-various human mauraders,former militarycanibals,gangs,etc etc
-fire(s)
-oops forgot to say any people is probably armed with automatic rifles or the like...I could go on,...

I got the inspiration to this thread after looking at Los Angeles in Google Earth...

My plan was to get an escape route out of LA downtown...

Well ... yeah ... but at least your dry :-)

[WallShadow]

lost/hidden underground structures

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/528...-avenue-subway -- Atlantic Avenue abandoned subway tunnel in Brooklyn. 2570-ft long.

http://www.nycgo.com/slideshows/new-york-secrets/11/ Brooklyn Bridge (Manhattan side) Bomb shelter and hidden chambers--restocked by the folks who brought you the Strategic Reserve stockpile(s) of Allegheny Uprising

http://www.nycgo.com/slideshows/new-york-secrets/2/ -- "Lost Station" subway stop under NYC City Hall, something one of the Duke's opponents might pay well to learn of.

http://gizmodo.com/how-one-inventor-...nde-1123695775 Mr. Beach's Pneumatic Subway, on Manhattan Island.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Are there subways in LA I've never heard of any, and burrying a trian in an area known for earthqukes is questionable to me. But never been there, so I maight be wrong.

I was well aware of LA's massive storm water drains and runoffs, they've featured in many, many movies but I didn't know about any subway systems. But yes, Los Angeles does have subways (something I didn't know until your question kicked my curiosity into gear!). Specifically it has two working lines and one abandoned line.
The working lines are the Red Line (16.4 mi / 26.4 km) opened in 1993 and the Purple Line (6.4 mi / 10.3 km) opened in 2006. The Purple Line runs most of its length on the Red Line although I am unsure if it has a physically separate track and platform system (seems unlikely). Extensions are planned for the subway system but funding appears to be a big problem.
The abandoned line was operating in the mid-1920s and had a short life, it ceased operations in 1955.

General info about the transit system including the subways
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_R...Angeles_County)

http://www.la-electric-travel.com/Los-Angeles-Metro-Rail.html

Map of the passenger rail system (subways are red and purple)

http://subway.umka.org/map-los-angeles.html

Article from 2010 about subway expansion

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/11/30/in-los-angeles-a-subway-system-grows/

Article from 2012 about subway expansion

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2012/03/25/l-a-s-westside-subway-is-practically-ready-for-construction-but-its-completion-could-be-25-years-off/

And finally, (the most interesting one!), the abandoned system

http://www.awalkerinla.com/2012/05/11/las-original-subway/

http://www.uncanny.net/~wetzel/subwayarea.htm

http://laist.com/2008/07/12/laistory_the_19.php