FARMING in T2K

[Graebarde]

Grae

hemp seed can be made into a paste and eaten as is or and as additives to other foods to increase there protein levels. Its most often used for baking. There are several hippy cook books that are all about hemp seed and hemp seed oil. (can you tell I used to live in Burlington VT) It can also be made into flour after it has been pressed of its oils.

Im thinking that eventually for fibre alone it would be worth its weight in gold and if anyone ever wanted paper again. But I wonder if people would actually want to record anything Debts perhaps

weasels indeed are blood suckers one wiped out my small pigeon coop (8 birds)

I once ate a chicken that a fox had killed, I caught saw it running away with it in its mouth, just before he a run in with some #6 shot. Another fox got to see what it was like to be Normandy, when it had a run in with an M1.

Wow I had no idea that raccoons where so bad to cultivated fields. There is a lot of woods for them here to roam in Maine so I haven't heard of them causing trouble. But I do think that is what attacked my goose in the middle of the night once. It Didn't kill him but we had to put him down.

Brother in Arms

Like I said, I don't know a bunch about uses of hemp other than fiber, though I've heard of the hemp oil. As for feed stock after extruding oil from a seed, the same is true for soybeans, peanuts, sunflowers. Very high protien contents in the meals, hence the use as a pro sup for cattle, but are also digestable for humans. (note I said digestable, not necessarily palatable.)

As for the coons.. there's a saying with them, "what they don't eat or tear-up they sht on." My youngest son's name use to be Coon, though he didn't necessarily sht on anything, but would leave it strewn to get rained on or what ever. He changed when HE had to buy stuff. LOL

Grae

[Graebarde]

Field Crop Yields

Attached is a file with the yields in pounds per acre (and kg/ha) for most field crops. Hemp is on the list, along with 'southern' crops such as cotton, tobacco, sugarcane, peanuts. In the notes area, there is given the 'average' percent oil content for oil seeds, and tow yield for fiber crops as well as other information pretaining for that crop. This information was initally gleaned from the first edition of Field Crops, published some time in the 40's with most of the data pre ww2. I think it's a pretty good rule of thumb. Hope it helps ya.

Note this is not an all inclusive list, and yields vary with variety and locations. These were NATIONAL averages of crops harvested, not planted from what I could determine. Note the difference of yields from that in the first file. For example with potato.

Grae

[ChalkLine]

I'm not ever going to go up against Grae's data, coz' he's an expert and the go-to man for this stuff. Seriously, FORD should write a book for this stuff.

Back in the pre-Renaissance, it took an acre of feed to provide for one horse for one year, plus pasturage. As you can guess, that's a lot of food and it could supply a human for a year, so deciding whether to have one-man year's surplus or a horse that may die of a sniffle, lameness or stepping on an AT-mine is a big decision. Working horses aren't grass-fed, or if they are you suffer a lot of wastage.

I don't really think we'll go back to feudal level technology for more than five years, at most. There will be some survivors, and those that live through dangers such as famine will have knowledge like Grae's (of course they'll die from a lot of stuff no one can protect against; diseases, bullets etc).

What Grae has alluded to is the great amount of pre-motorised farm mechanisation. These instruments, usually made entirely of metal, can be seen planted in front of people's yards across every country. They are the invaluable (although probably radioactive) templates from which other machines can be built. I'm sure a quick search will turn up a wealth of data on the pre-motorised agricultural machinery, and give GMs ideas for including these valuable items into play.

As an aside, I once had a great picture of a T-55 hauling a plough.

[Graebarde]

I'm not ever going to go up against Grae's data, coz' he's an expert and the go-to man for this stuff. Seriously, FORD should write a book for this stuff.

Back in the pre-Renaissance, it took an acre of feed to provide for one horse for one year, plus pasturage. As you can guess, that's a lot of food and it could supply a human for a year, so deciding whether to have one-man year's surplus or a horse that may die of a sniffle, lameness or stepping on an AT-mine is a big decision. Working horses aren't grass-fed, or if they are you suffer a lot of wastage.

I don't really think we'll go back to feudal level technology for more than five years, at most. There will be some survivors, and those that live through dangers such as famine will have knowledge like Grae's (of course they'll die from a lot of stuff no one can protect against; diseases, bullets etc).

What Grae has alluded to is the great amount of pre-motorised farm mechanisation. These instruments, usually made entirely of metal, can be seen planted in front of people's yards across every country. They are the invaluable (although probably radioactive) templates from which other machines can be built. I'm sure a quick search will turn up a wealth of data on the pre-motorised agricultural machinery, and give GMs ideas for including these valuable items into play.

As an aside, I once had a great picture of a T-55 hauling a plough.

Thanks Chalkie. But I don't profess to be an expert, just full of IT as my wife say... what ever IT is

Yes the pre-motorized mechanization is found in museums and front yards all through the midwest. You'd actually be surprised at some of the stuff that would still work. A great part of the equipment was made with cast iron parts, easier to fabricate than forged steel parts, but more fragile.

An interesting note on this tech-level which we discuss here, Back in '86 I was in college (actually grad school at the time) and there was to be a speaker from Niger (NOT Nigeria) sponsored by one of the on-campus organizations (African Students or some such). He was the head of their countries equivalent of the USDA, a cabinet member, so I thought I'd go see what he had to say. After the rubber chicken dinner (actually it was pretty good the way they fixed it up with some spices and such we don't normally use) it was time. He told a story of getting a call from his Deputy that was on holiday traveling around the US. It was something after 11pm and this excited voice gets on the line "I have found the solution!", to which he replied, "TO what" since they had MANY things they needed solutions to. What the deputy had 'discovered' was the Ford Museum in Detroit, the agricultural display. All the horse drawn equipment on display. The typical third-world country must learn to walk before it can run, and the World bank was trying to 'modernize' the farms by loaning money to by tractors and the equipment for them when they really only needed equipment pulled by a draft animal. What amazed me, and got me to thinking was this aspect of the world. You see, my interst in 'obsolete' technology is applicable to places like that. Yes, it might be reinventing the wheel to us, but it IS the wheel never invented for them.

A good NPC to come across might be a Peace Corps worker, or VISTA, or USAID, that worked in developing countries.

Well I got off tangent as usual.
As for the T-55 pulling a plow.. Heck they could chew up a plot with OUT the plow. Soviet tracked vehicles are like construction crawlers in they did not use track pads like the US did. They will definately tear up the infastructure.

Grae

[firewalker]

Random thought (maybe more to follow.....it's late )

Any info on acorns

Or fruit tree's and berries (wild and domestic)

Also most of the info presented seams to presume a pre existing dedicated farm of one sort of another. What about more add hoc arrangements Rural locations with a variable level of farm now how (personal veg gardens up 3/4 to almost an acre are not unknown were i live) and maybe more importantly a more variable level of relic equipment.

[Graebarde]

The table of yields, not the field crops, has some information on yields of various fruit and nut trees. I would cut the production considerable from what I have on the list. It was intensive management, or so they said.

Any of the fruits are very climate sensative. A late hard frost in spring will take out an entire crop before it gets started. Even the hardiest of the varieties are still prone to abnormal temperatures, and all are suseptable to drooughty conditions.

Acorns and wild foods I have not addressed, however in a good or better year an acorn tree will drop 100 pounds or more. Making flour from acorns is 'relativel' easy. Just grind them and leach them in several changes of water to remove most of the tannin. Indians supplemented their diets with it and it was even the main source for some tribes. It also makes good hog and deer feed in addition to the tree rat and other smaller critters. You can tell a good year they say in the rack of the deer... don't ask me other than it is nurtrition driven.

There is also amaranth (sp) which is a cereal type crop. Though originally wild (hummmmmmmm come to think of it ALL the domestics were at one time duhhhhh) it has come under cultivation is some places amoung BTL folks. It is still found in the wilds though.

Wild fruits generally do not produce what domestic does under care. There are wild plums, apples (crabapples), grapes, and all sorts of nuts other than acorns. Just check the per plant yields and adjust the yields down by fifty percent or so. It's all a throw of the die in a game as it is luck in RL. There are good years and bad years. Averages are misleading. ALWAYS look at statistics with a grain of salt, and never trust them unless ther is an LSD listed (learned from regression analysis)

(Lesson Learned: Did the rainfall average for TAMU Ag Research Station Beeville several years ago. Used data for 100 years. Before I started my lead scientist (Boss) told me we were under perpetual drought with intermitent floods... laugh, but it is true. September average at the station was ~3", not a bad rain fall average you say FIVE years with ZERO rain, and ONE year with 18" (read as tropical storm/hurricane) give an AVERAGE of 3"! )


Hope I answered at least part of the question before I got carried away with tales.

Grae

[ChalkLine]

Good point 'Barde.

If we're going to look at crop yields, we have to get really back to basics;

- Define how the nuclear exchange occurred in your campaign. (Intensity, tempo and coverage)

- Define what climate changes result from the exchanges.

- Define the local effects of those climate changes.

For instance, a Nuclear Autumn means you're not going to get good grains. A localised devastation of forestry can change the micro-climate (this happened in the middle of the state where I live, the trees were cut down for pasturage resulting in an increase in aridity. The entire area is now drought-prone in the nation's wettest state) and bring drought to formerly wet areas.

It also gives the Gm the excuse to have weird weather effects

[Targan]

It also gives the Gm the excuse to have weird weather effects

I try to freak the characters out in my campaign with oddly bright and extended light displays somewhat like the Aurora Borealis but more purple in colour (the after effects of high altitude nuclear detonations and particulate matter in the upper atmosphere).

[Graebarde]

Random thought (maybe more to follow.....it's late )

Any info on acorns

Or fruit tree's and berries (wild and domestic)

Also most of the info presented seams to presume a pre existing dedicated farm of one sort of another. What about more add hoc arrangements Rural locations with a variable level of farm now how (personal veg gardens up 3/4 to almost an acre are not unknown were i live) and maybe more importantly a more variable level of relic equipment.

There would of course be ad hoc arrangements, however if you do not have basic knowledge of what your going to do, your project is going to suffer greatly. ("raided Hastings and found several books on gardening and back to land. Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living is great.")

Where do you get the seed ("raided the garden center for all they had. Don't know what the heck celeric is but I guess it's edible. It was in vegetables at least. Got hand tools as well. You know they had this nifty cart with bicyle wheels. We just loaded it up. Spades, rakes, hoes, digging fork.. watering cans and buckets too.")

The land ('We're digging up the back yard.. and there's a golf course down the road. They aren't playing there anymore and........")


Yes, there is larger gardens around the country, and as the war progressed up to fall, I would expect more gardens going in. Perhaps "Victory gardens". As for tools/implements, they are around as lawn orniments, sitting in the woodline rusting away, in museums, and yes in use on some operations. There are companies in the Midwest that build draft animal implements now for the Amish and others using draft horses. If you google you'll be surprised at the number of folks that have draft horses and oxen. Most are hobby interests, but some operate their farms with the animals, totally or in part.

That's a knowledge base as much as resource for animals, though as I said it takes upwards of four year from birth to get a viable working animal, ~five if you start at conception.

AND there is a workforce IF you can get organized, and not be eaten out of house and home before the first harvest.

Grae

[Mohoender]

I found what you are all saying very interesting and I agree with what you said about basic knowledge but keep it simple and that will work fine in T2K (however, I have been raised next to a farm and that might help).

Seeds would be the most difficult thing to get indeed as you'll need to raid some kind of storage. By the way if the world turns to gene modified seeds which cannot reproduce itself, you'll have only two things left to do: starve and pass out (Hopefully this is not yet the case). For the next planting don't foget to keep a bit of everything. You'll have plenty of failures but you'll learn eventually if you don't starve during the first year.

About berry's and fruits, you'll need bedding plants (I don't know if it is the right name in english) and a good knife will do. Don't forget about the wild berrys, they are often easily turned into more or less domesticated ones (ask any eco-nuts they'll have some idea about it). People have also been known to eat grass and do soup with it.

About the places where you can do some planting, just pick the dark ground (usually reacher) and turn any graveyard into a crop field. You'll quickly find out that the dead are very helpfull for that matter (praise them and do the planting). Harlington would be the greatest crop field in US (no offense). Any rotting biological stuff might also be of some help.

Your first year will be very hard anyway. Choose wild picking in order to complement your diet and survive. Mushrooms are great as are wild berrys but don't forget to raid a library before you turn to them (this time your common sense might not be enough). however, you can use slave labor to test what you pick; if they survive you can eat it.

Raising animals is not that hard and don't worry in times of needs all animals are great. According to some in my familly, cats, dogs (your step mother puppy will become a perfect christmas meal) and rats are very fine meats. Moreover dogs or rats are easy to hunt and to raise (you can feed them with things you wouldn't eat and they breed about every 3 weeks for the rats). Enjoy people . Just for the little story, nowadays, governments in Asia (including India) are advising their populations to turn to rat's meat in order to replace beef. In some areas, don't forget about insects such as worms and grasshoppers. Some people in this world are making great stews out of them. In Africa or Asia, monkeys will do if you can forget about the fact that they look like human babies. Turn to fishing instead of hunting as I doubt that many of us are very good with bows and spears. You'll need to save ammunitions for self defense. I know how to make simple traps and everyone with a working brain can figure one out to catch small animals (again, rats and cocroach, Yummy!!)

As a matter of fact just use common sense and that works. about tools, you just need basic things to realize some great stuff: a small axe (even a knife will do if you have patience) and fire will be more than enough to do whatever you need. Then, you'll just need some wood sticks (usually 2) to realize some working tools. Floating woods will be everywhere and you'll find woods from ruined houses. If you really want metal tools, you'll need a hammer and an oven and again some brain (don't forget, that you'll have tons of metals around to melt).

Finally, if you don't have draft animals, women or kids (or again slave labor) will replace them perfectly. Nevertheless, when you get to this you are already heading toward industrial agriculture, for the basic your small exhausted muscles will be more than enough. How do you think they were doing in time when they couldn't afford draft annimals Anyway women are usually doing great at work while men are useless and leasy. Keep the men for when you need raw strength and hard fighting. In T2K we are already doing most of the killing and you want also do the cooking.

[Graebarde]

I agree Moh, for the most part.

One thing I would not recommend to the novice is mushrooms. I have no adversion to them, but I only know enough about them to get myself dead in the wilds. Some are so toxic on spore can kill you if ingested.

And yes, cats, dogs and rats are good when properly prepared (sautee with butter and garlic).. Also in the survival situation, it is best to cook the food in a pot as a soup or stew rather than broil, bake of fry if possible. It conserves the vitamins into the broth. Perpetual soups: kept over the low fire all the time and added to daily with what is foraged.

Harlington I guess I missed that. Could you explain

Grae

[Mohoender]

I was thinking about Arlington National Cemetery (a spelling mistake on my part, sorry about that). A large graveyard full of minerals and good earth but as I said no offense. Especially as, in T2K, that location will be wiped out by a nuke.

I would use any such graveyard, including the ones around here. That will need more work here as we will have to get quite some stones out. However, the way cemeteries are made in US or in Germany will make things easier. Post Apoc after all.

Grae about Mushrooms, most are not only toxic, they are nice and fun in the way they kill (so to say). They are as good as nerve gas and will slowly attack and destroy your nervous system. You might even survive if you are unlucky. I learned about them when I was 10. Actually, I suspect several scientist to have thought of them when they conceived some of the nerve gas that you can find around.

[Graebarde]

I was thinking about Arlington National Cemetery (a spelling mistake on my part, sorry about that). A large graveyard full of minerals and good earth but as I said no offense. Especially as, in T2K, that location will be wiped out by a nuke.

I would use any such graveyard, including the ones around here. That will need more work here as we will have to get quite some stones out. However, the way cemeteries are made in US or in Germany will make things easier. Post Apoc after all.

Grae about Mushrooms, most are not only toxic, they are nice and fun in the way they kill (so to say). They are as good as nerve gas and will slowly attack and destroy your nervous system. You might even survive if you are unlucky. I learned about them when I was 10. Actually, I suspect several scientist to have thought of them when they conceived some of the nerve gas that you can find around.

Well I think in the US there is even a better area than a cemetary to dig up, that being the golf courses. Of course a lot of them are on sandy soil, but they would still work, with work and luck.. always luck.

Fun ways to kill..... yeah slow and painful... though with mushrooms the good ones are delicious... and add to a meal... rich in minerals. Now I'm hungry for a rich creamy peppered mushroom soup.. thick as gravy almost.. with whole meal bread.. and green onions... and a nice cheese for after... washed down with some ale or lager.... (drooling on the keyboard...)

FB

[General Pain]

Well I think in the US there is even a better area than a cemetary to dig up, that being the golf courses. Of course a lot of them are on sandy soil, but they would still work, with work and luck.. always luck.

Fun ways to kill..... yeah slow and painful... though with mushrooms the good ones are delicious... and add to a meal... rich in minerals. Now I'm hungry for a rich creamy peppered mushroom soup.. thick as gravy almost.. with whole meal bread.. and green onions... and a nice cheese for after... washed down with some ale or lager.... (drooling on the keyboard...)

FB

....drooling here too.....sounds delicious......

[Targan]

I move that Grae cooks us dinner... anyone want to second that motion