Odd Treasure Troves

[dragoon500ly]

The Napoleon is the prize here, followed by the rifles and revolvers. The Spencers are going to have the same problem faced by the Southerners who captured them--once the rimfire ammo's gone, it's a fancy club.
The Napoleon, though, could take out soft-skinned vehicles and make a APC think twice. IIRC some ACW artillerists live-fire their weapons with appropriately-diametered food cans filled with cement. One wonders what would happen if a nice hardened steel spike is centered along the long axis of the projectile

I do know that this has been used to fire grapeshot and canister as well as solid shot as part of an archeological research project, copies of artillery manuals from the Civil War showing to make shells and fuses, and several members claim they can manufacture the same, so I can see certain possibilities. This is part a battery in lower Mississippi and eastern Louisiana and they have access to another Napoleon, a 12pdr mountain howitizer, a 6pdr field gun and a 12pdr Cohorn mortar. So enough guns to defend a small town.

[swaghauler]

Also, note that the carriage on that Napoleon can be removed and the gun placed on a more "modern" mount. There would be no problem mounting that on the back of a 5-ton flatbed using the parts of a light truck suspension to mount the gun without damaging the truck or the gun. In fact, I'm willing to bet there's a "Technical" out there with just such an arrangement.

[WallShadow]

Also, note that the carriage on that Napoleon can be removed and the gun placed on a more "modern" mount. There would be no problem mounting that on the back of a 5-ton flatbed using the parts of a light truck suspension to mount the gun without damaging the truck or the gun. In fact, I'm willing to bet there's a "Technical" out there with just such an arrangement.

One wonders how much more beneficial a recoil mechanism would be for accuracy. Of course a soup can packed with 6d nails or heavy staples (heh,heh), or even barbs clipped from barbed wire (suitably rusty, of course), would most definitely have a beneficially adverse effect on enemy morale.
Hmmmm....soup can with razor wire coiled inside it....

[dragoon500ly]

[QUOTE=WallShadow;71287]One wonders how much more beneficial a recoil mechanism would be for accuracy. Of course a soup can packed with 6d nails or heavy staples (heh,heh), or even barbs clipped from barbed wire (suitably rusty, of course), would most definitely have a beneficially adverse effect on enemy morale.
Hmmmm....soup can with razor wire coiled inside

Soup cans are a tad small in a diameter, coffee cans are normally used, stuff one full of musket balls and you have canister, pour concrete and let one set, you have solid shot.

The artillery manuals also all kinds of useful info like how to make illumination and incendiary rounds as well.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Not an odd treasure trove, more an odd place to find certain things...

In regards to finding firearms for scenarios set in the United Kingdom (and for almost anywhere else really), there is one source of civilian firearms that doesn't get much attention... zoos/wildlife parks.

In many countries, operators of these facilities have an obligation to protect the public should a dangerous animal escape and for some, one option is to deploy their own armed response teams.
Zoos/wildlife parks are by no means very common but aside from people going there to kill the animals for food or find vehicles, construction supplies etc. etc., how many people would raid a zoo thinking it has firearms locked away somewhere

For some more info, The Firearms Blog has this page,

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/01/zoo-weapons-response-teams/utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheFirearmBlog+%28The+Firearm+Blog%29

[swaghauler]

[QUOTE=dragoon500ly;71289]

One wonders how much more beneficial a recoil mechanism would be for accuracy. Of course a soup can packed with 6d nails or heavy staples (heh,heh), or even barbs clipped from barbed wire (suitably rusty, of course), would most definitely have a beneficially adverse effect on enemy morale.
Hmmmm....soup can with razor wire coiled inside

Soup cans are a tad small in a diameter, coffee cans are normally used, stuff one full of musket balls and you have canister, pour concrete and let one set, you have solid shot.

The artillery manuals also all kinds of useful info like how to make illumination and incendiary rounds as well.

Two small Campbells soup cans can be loaded into a ("roughly") 120mm bore side by side. You must lightly crimp them but they fit. The coffee can must be lightly crimped as well. However, the coffee can will have a reduced range because of the weight of the shot load (or will require a larger powder charge which can be dangerous). The IDEAL canister round is a Bondo/body putty canister. It fits nicely inside a 12 pounder and is short enough in height to not produce an overweight shot charge.

[WallShadow]

[QUOTE=swaghauler;71292]

Two small Campbells soup cans can be loaded into a ("roughly") 120mm bore side by side. You must lightly crimp them but they fit. The coffee can must be lightly crimped as well. However, the coffee can will have a reduced range because of the weight of the shot load (or will require a larger powder charge which can be dangerous). The IDEAL canister round is a Bondo/body putty canister. It fits nicely inside a 12 pounder and is short enough in height to not produce an overweight shot charge.

Mighty funny how someone would already know this, as if they'd tried it for real....

[swaghauler]

[QUOTE=WallShadow;71294]

Mighty funny how someone would already know this, as if they'd tried it for real....

I try to get my sweaty mitts on every kind of weapon where ever I can (the REASON I joined the artillery...can you find a bigger gun to shoot). I have been a party to "experiments with muzzle loading cannon" from time to time.

I cannot wait for D-Day Conneaut OH this August. I love the German 88mm, the Russian 76mm, the half dozen 37mm AT guns, and the 3 or 4 US 75mm Pack howitzers. The tanks are cool too but they won't let me play with those guns....

[unkated]

The Napoleon is the prize here, followed by the rifles and revolvers. The Spencers are going to have the same problem faced by the Southerners who captured them--once the rimfire ammo's gone, it's a fancy club.
The Napoleon, though, could take out soft-skinned vehicles and make a APC think twice. IIRC some ACW artillerists live-fire their weapons with appropriately-diametered food cans filled with cement. One wonders what would happen if a nice hardened steel spike is centered along the long axis of the projectile

The original AP ammo was called a bolt, and was a solid chunk of cylindrical iron (as opposed to a ball). However, a bolt was usually fired from a rifled gun (ex: Union 20-lb or 30-lb (3"-4' diam approx) Parrott Rifle, as opposed to a smooth-bore Napoleon). The spin kept the bolt end-on to the target, and it decelerated less quickly than a ball. (So a cement-filled can is not as strange a projectile as it might seem.)

With some hardened steel chisels, a blacksmith and a woodshop, you could probably make some crude APDS.

With a little research, you could also make cannister - a cylinder filled with small lead balls (or a collection of 1/4 - 1/2-in nuts and short bolts) that splits apart as it leaves the barrel, making a giant shotgun. Other than only being deployable at close range, it would be effective against infantry. Reload time is kind of slow.

Uncle Ted

[StainlessSteelCynic]

With a little research, you could also make cannister - a cylinder filled with small lead balls (or a collection of 1/4 - 1/2-in nuts and short bolts) that splits apart as it leaves the barrel, making a giant shotgun. Other than only being deployable at close range, it would be effective against infantry. Reload time is kind of slow.

Uncle Ted

As I recall, ships (and even castles) of the gunpowder era where often fitted with swivel guns for pretty much that same purpose - a short range anti-personnel weapon.

For those who haven't heard about them, a swivel gun is basically a small canon on a swiveling mount to allow wide arc of movement, filled with grapeshot to help repel enemies attempting to board the ship (or castle).
Again, reload time is slow but you can mitigate that somewhat by having multiple swivel guns in the same place so that one (or more) are available while the first gun is reloading.
The main point here is that you can get multiple swivel guns for the cost of a single larger cannon and they have a greater range of movement as well as being much faster to move.

[swaghauler]

As I recall, ships (and even castles) of the gunpowder era where often fitted with swivel guns for pretty much that same purpose - a short range anti-personnel weapon.

For those who haven't heard about them, a swivel gun is basically a small canon on a swiveling mount to allow wide arc of movement, filled with grapeshot to help repel enemies attempting to board the ship (or castle).
Again, reload time is slow but you can mitigate that somewhat by having multiple swivel guns in the same place so that one (or more) are available while the first gun is reloading.
The main point here is that you can get multiple swivel guns for the cost of a single larger cannon and they have a greater range of movement as well as being much faster to move.

Also, keep in mind that swivel guns being black powder and generally of small caliber do not necessarily fall under the guidelines of either the NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) or under the Gun Control Act of 1968 which makes them very easy to acquire legally. This means that they can still be made (as "replica firearms") unlike larger caliber BP cannon (which are "Destructive Devices" under NFA). That alone would see them "pressed into service" during the Twilight War. Even today, a large number of sailors have small BP swivel guns as "saluting guns" or just for fun on the decks of their ships.

[LT. Ox]

Yep

Also, keep in mind that swivel guns being black powder and generally of small caliber do not necessarily fall under the guidelines of either the NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) or under the Gun Control Act of 1968 which makes them very easy to acquire legally. This means that they can still be made (as "replica firearms") unlike larger caliber BP cannon (which are "Destructive Devices" under NFA). That alone would see them "pressed into service" during the Twilight War. Even today, a large number of sailors have small BP swivel guns as "saluting guns" or just for fun on the decks of their ships.

I own two and have "made" several others. We have used all manor of "tubes" from drill rod ( Oil field type) to 20 mm up to 40mm cut offs from decomished tubes. I like them better then some of the cast reproduction guns.
Not hard and as you say very legit.
As to speed, that is another thing I can reload a 24"(long) swivel in less time than it takes for the smoke ta clear. Laugh< which in calm weather is a bit.
I have used them in many rendezvous and ren fair locations and at the Highland games here in Estes park.
we use blank and cast .45 most times and have done the canester and loose loads.
I have made black powder ( some years ago) and it is not [U]too[U] hard but some what dangerious. sic the best carbon being from willow we found.
Oh well my 2 cents once more
harry O

[WallShadow]

Not an odd treasure trove, more an odd place to find certain things...
<SNIP>
Zoos/wildlife parks are by no means very common but aside from people going there to kill the animals for food or find vehicles, construction supplies etc. etc., how many people would raid a zoo thinking it has firearms locked away somewhere <SNIP>

Having just done a very short search online, an obvious (in retrospect) opportunity to obtain firearms and ammo would be at several of the smaller private military academies . I searched a couple and found references to "rifle range" "rifle team" and photos of cadets in formation, some with '03 Springfields, some with M-14s. A rifle range, especially one located underground, would not be readily recognized, and, since the student were most likely home for the holidays, they would not have necessarily been able to access it. Not to mention the treasure-as-trade-in only-fired-once brass awaiting disposal, and expended lead in the backstops that might be used to produce more ammo.
Orrrrrrr....Assume a cadre of students and instructors remained at, or returned to, the academy, with its dining hall supplies, firing range weapons and ammo, "Taps", anyone

[swaghauler]

Hobby Store &quot;Heavy Weapons&quot; and &quot;Drones.&quot;

When considering the manufacture of heavy weapons one cannot forget the radio-controlled planes/cars and model rockets you can find in hobby shops. Explosives-laden radio-controlled vehicles can be used as a "poor man's guided missile."

Model rocket launchers can easily be converted into RPGs. Many model rockets can carry payloads and the explosive "micro charge" in most rocket motors (which is used to deploy a parachute) can be strengthened with flash powder to boost its power for igniting an explosive charge.

The electrical ignition system (using a 9-volt battery) can easily be modified into a launcher by simply attaching it to a steel tube, thus creating a "makeshift RPG-16."

[StainlessSteelCynic]

"Taps", anyone

A sadly under-rated movie and while I don't know how much firepower a military academy like the one shown in the movie would be likely to have, it would still be a potential resource for items such as beds, bed linen, books, household cleaning supplies (I'm thinking particularly about bulk supplies of bleach), clothing supplies (even though they may be smaller sizes the material could be reused to make clothes for adults), even toilet paper and possibly bulk fuel for generators, lawn mowers, academy motor vehicles and so on.

Assuming the academy is out of the way and hasn't been cleared out by any government agency of course.
I think a typical high school/academy would have too much "uninteresting" loot for scavengers to bother with but it's the type of stuff that groups looking to rebuild could be interested in. Obviously a military academy is going to be interesting because of the potential for "military loot" but I think that that would result in most raiders leaving items that would be useful for rebuilding - I'd assume they'd be after guns, food and fuel and wouldn't bother with the gear I've mentioned above.