M1 Tank Factory

[stormlion1]

Actually I was thinking construction equipment with bolted on armor and a scavenged gun of some type. The kicker is the frame, that big piece they sandblast in the video. Everything, and I mean everything bolts into that. Without that piece all the parts are just so many parts.

[Targan]

Make more tanks Well somewhat true, the ability to produce some the equipment certainly but a complete modern tank should be pretty much impossible. Unless you want to make something along the line of a World War 1 era tank that is.

Agreed, manufacturing complete modern MBTs isn't going to happen for a long time. Parts though, that's not out of the question. The ability to manufacture replacement parts to keep existing MBTs running would be invaluable for MilGov or CivGov.

[Adm.Lee]

Spare parts production

So, who makes the treads and the big turbine engines, and where are they

[rcaf_777]

So, who makes the treads and the big turbine engines, and where are they

Up untill 1996 M1A1 Tanks were made at the Lima Army Tank Plant in Lima Ohio, with some systems made at the Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant, after 1996 everthing was done at the Lima Army Tank Plant.

According to Wikipedia the plant output of M1A1's is 120 per month.

I am guessing with the war is full swing that tank production would done at many diffrent locations and maybe even by other companies.

To answer your question: The Engines are made at Stratford Army Engine Plant in Stratford, Connecticut and Anniston Army Depot in Bynum, Alabama. The main gun is made at Watervliet Arsenal in Watervliet NY.

I am wondering why the Soviet would waste a nuke on the Lima Plant given that the tank production is spread over many locations, not to meation the fact that every M1A1 has to be shipped to Europe by sea so destorying seaports and attacking shipping could achive the same results and give them nuke for another traget.

[stormlion1]

Striking at the plants is one scenario, the other is striking at rail lines and shipping ports. Once those are destroyed the Lima Plant and any other plant are out of luck as they can't move or embark anything to Europe or Asia. You can only move so much by truck as well and if the citys are hit than all movement comes to a standstill even if the factorys producing tanks, trucks, guns, or even boots are left untouched.

[Olefin]

Actually having that line intact could produce a lot of tanks for you. I worked at United Defense in York -and back in the 90's they definitely did not have a just in time delivery system - even now we have a lot of inventory. At one time we had over 100 vehicle sets of tracks for the M88, along with three dozen engines and fifty M88A1 hulls plus the armor for them sitting in the warehouses and out back and that was in 2009 with a just in time system.

You could easily, during a war, have enouigh material on hand to keep the place going for literally months after a strike.

So could the Lima plant, with the line intact and no damage to the warehouses and storage areas, be a potential source of a lot of tanks if they can get it up and running again - the answer is yes. Possibly even as many as a full months to two months worth of production - especially if the plant stopped dead right after the strike with it building at full power for the war.

I know when we were doing 120 Bradleys a month we had at least six weeks worth of guns on hand. Our big problem was engines - but remember during a war the government could take priority on engine delivery from the suppliers versus the civilian market - and the war went on long enough to shift production to get more of them made each month.

[Olefin]

Went out and downloaded Challenge 56 and the Lima Incident article

interesting in many ways:

it says that three M1 tanks are operational but only one has its full main armament - however you cant have a tank operational without mounting the turret and the cannon - not sure on the assembly process there and when the barrel goes on and where the boresighting process occurs - you can actually do it on the line - we bore sighted M109's at York on the production line and then did a second check after final assembly

it mentions Marysville but not the Honda plant there - which would be a huge asset for anyone trying to rebuild - lots of equipment there and they made motorcyles and cars there

it has a detachment of the 194th in Defiance Ohio - that unit is at Robinson and Cairo IL - both of which are a long long way from Defiance - basically you have to cross all of Indiana to get there - that implies that the unit is much bigger than mentioned in Howling Wildnerness to be nosing around in Ohio -i.e. they would have to be doing patrols all thru IL and IN just to get there

as the crow flies Cairo to Robinson is 159 miles and Robinson to Defiance is 238 miles - so thats an awfully big patrol area - could see why the Fort Defiance guys have been waiting

oh and one other observation - even if you take HW as canon the 194th would have a hell of a lot of gas to use for their vehicles

Robinson Refinery had a production cap of 212,000 barrels of oil per day - even at 1% they could produce 88,266 liters of gasoline per day (2120 barrels per day x 11 gallons of gas per barrel x 3.785 liters per gallon)

if the cracker is still on line, even at 1% you are talking about 168508 liters per day - thats a heck of a lot of gasoline for their vehicles even if they only make gas one or two days a week and make lube oil or diesel the rest

and if the cracker is online then you are talking avgas as well - so possibly helos for them in operation or aircraft

[Adm.Lee]

Small sidebar: Paul Riegel, who wrote the two Ohio-based Challenge articles, lived around central Ohio at the time those were written. I remember his name from two local gaming clubs, but I cannot recall his face. I have no idea where he is now.

[Olefin]

By the way guys just for your information I know the Ohio area well also

lived in Marysville Ohio from June 1995 to March 2000 - so if the war had started for real that is where I would have been during the actual timeline

was an engineer for Honda and went to several of the towns listed in the module on a regular basis

two of my three kids were born at the Union County Hospital in Marysville

[unkated]

I watched a documentary recently (I think it was originally linked to here in the forums) tank "building" "tools and dies" are multiple-ton, specialty machines, many of them computer controlled CNC machines. Nobody's going to build another tank factory. Not for multiple decades, not with a country with barely twenty million people left in it, who are starving, beset by plague, cut off by completely destroyed infrastructure, scattered across 4 million square miles with no remaining central gov't outside of a few enclaves and the gov't that's left is in a three-way de-facto civil war (all canon, btw.)

Hmmm. Less computer control and fewer hi-tech components 20 years ago.

Build an M1A2 Nope, probably not.

Adapt the technology and make something simpler like a WW2 Sherman or Pershing Especially using existing components like engines Yep.

Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

Or go for the tank destroyer concept like the US and Germans used during WWII - much easier to build and still packs the punch of a tank and the mobility of a tank

and even with EMP damage keep in mind that the tech to build WWI style tanks would be very easy to reinvigorate

and a WWI style tank against pure infantry (your typical marauder force) that only have machine guns and rifles is a very effective tank indeed

[James Langham2]

Hmmm, it's interesting that the tanks are M1A1s - I am writing up an article on the M1A2 - from the numbers listed with units it was obviously manufactured in quantity. Any ideas - currently I am considering another factory making the M1A2 (or at least the turret) with the Lima plant continuing production of the M1A1 so as not to delay new tanks by retooling.

[unkated]

Watervliet Arsenal

Hmmm, it's interesting that the tanks are M1A1s - I am writing up an article on the M1A2 - from the numbers listed with units it was obviously manufactured in quantity.

The real one or the goose-neck monstrosity form the game

Any ideas - currently I am considering another factory making the M1A2 (or at least the turret) with the Lima plant continuing production of the M1A1 so as not to delay new tanks by retooling.

Worth noting - the 120mm tank gun itself is manufactured at the Watervliet Arsenal in New York State across the river from Troy, some 5 miles north of Albany. And not near any nuke targets (according to the official target list).

Uncle Ted

[pmulcahy11b]

The real one or the goose-neck monstrosity form the game

I just renamed this one the M-1A3 and moved it to the Best Tanks that Never Were page. It was a real developmental model, though they only built one prototype with a non-functioning gun.

[Olefin]

One thing to keep in mind about a lot of defense factories is that, especially during wartime and pre-just in time delivery practices that went into effect in the mid 2000's, there would be significant stock of parts on hand at any one time - probably enough for the completion of as many as 20-40 tanks if not more if the factory can get power

thats a significant force for sure - especially for CivGov and New America who hardly have any real tanks

Thats why I have the plant in York that makes the Bradley, M88, AGS and M109 as being reactivated once the 28th got home from Omega to provide security and get power back up to the plant, using stocked up parts to complete what they can of the vehicles that were in the pipeline when the factory was shut down