The A-10 in T2k - still the most flying?

[Panther Al]

All I got to say - other than the A10 needs to stay in service, or at least, replaced with a newer version that shares all the capabilities of the existing one without exception - is this:

HR 4739. Put before the US House back in 91' I believe.

In it, it directs the Air Force to transfer the A10 and all supporting elements to the US Army as soon as it is deemed practicable upon the retirement of the OV1 Mohawk.

The Army held up its end: it dumped the Mohawk. Still waiting on the Air Force to do the same. I think the issue might be the Senate, and I can not find anything that says they did or did not have put its stamp on it.

[kcdusk]

Our playing party were moving at maximum speed across the wide, open, field. Breaking from their last engagement the 5 vehicles were moving at maximum speed, a massive cloud of dust easily showing their escape.

"Contact at 7'O'Clock" boomed over the radio!

All eyes moved to that direction, how could the enemy have moved into that position

Despite all the eyes, no contact could be seen. And then, AND THEN, a massive dark cloud passed directly over the convoy! The A-10 warthog had passed at low altitude, directly over the playing parties convoy. Nobody had been checking for any contacts above the horizon!

"Break break break!' and each of the 5 vehicles spread out and headed for wood lands at different points of the compass. The Hog gave one vehicle a mouthful of 30mm, and another vehicle got a 110mm shot that exploded nearby.

4 hours later. Under the cover of darkness, each of the 5 vehicles re-grouped. The playing partys conversation goes like this;

Player 1: we need, neeeed to get outahere! Thats an A10! Its going to rip us 5 new ones!!!

Player 2: No, we need to continue, we could capture this thing!

[pmulcahy11b]

All I got to say - other than the A10 needs to stay in service, or at least, replaced with a newer version that shares all the capabilities of the existing one without exception - is this:

HR 4739. Put before the US House back in 91' I believe.

In it, it directs the Air Force to transfer the A10 and all supporting elements to the US Army as soon as it is deemed practicable upon the retirement of the OV1 Mohawk.

The Army held up its end: it dumped the Mohawk. Still waiting on the Air Force to do the same. I think the issue might be the Senate, and I can not find anything that says they did or did not have put its stamp on it.

In my mind, there are a lot of aircraft that belong in the Army. The A-10, the Harrier, the F-35B (if it ever appears as a decent platform, it's not now), the C-23, the Osprey, the Pucara, and probably more that are escaping me at the moment. The A-10 and the Pucara, in particular, make excellent ground support aircraft.

[Matt Wiser]

Since half of the active A-10 fleet is in the Guard or AFRES, watch for the Senators and Congresscritters whose districts have such units to fight tooth and nail to preserve them. You might even have the entire A-10 fleet go to the ANG to make the active AF happy (a la the A-7 back in the '70s).

[Sanjuro]

We had a lecture once from an A-10 pilot who reckoned they would all survive WW3, as they flew so slowly the war would be over by the time they reached the front...

[Olefin]

actually that might mean the Russians are all out of missiles shooting down F-16's and 15's so the A-10's catch them in their reload cycle

[Olefin]

One thing about an A-10 is that it could be possible you could see ones being used by people establishing little "bandit" kingdoms and duchies in Europe - its low maintenance, low fuel consumption and perfect to kick the butt of those pesky Germans or Czechs who dont like that you are now the Grand Booba of Fulda but they dont have any remaining air support or more importantly AA missiles to oppose it - especially if you have a couple operational oil wells and a small efining capability so you can have a few tanks of fuel to keep her in the air and a couple basic ammo loads looted from a long abandoned NATO air base to use on your less friendly neighbors

[rcaf_777]

I'm sorry to say that I think the No column outweighs the Yes.

Not quite on-topic, but here's this that I just saw today:

I wonder what A-10 Pilot came up with this how can a aircraft with a range of under 280 NMI be a muilt role aircraft

Ok lets look at the A-10 Mulit Missions

Close Air Support close air support (CAS) is defined as air action by fixed or rotary-winged aircraft against hostile targets that are close to friendly ground or naval forces, and which requires detailed integration of each air mission with fire and movement of these forces OK I get it Yes the A-10 can do this mission

Strike Control and Reconnaissance (SCAR), is a mission flown for the purpose of detecting targets and coordinating or performing attack or reconnaissance on those targets Strike coordination and reconnaissance missions are flown in a specific geographic area and are an element of the command and control interface to coordinate multiple flights detect and attack targets neutralize enemy air defences and provide battle damage assessment. Not sure dose the A-10 and modern comm suite that can handle this also can you put a camera on the A-10 and dose it lack of speed make thses flight unwise

Combat search and rescue (CSAR) are search and rescue operations that are carried out during war that are within or near combat zones. A CSAR mission may be carried out by a task force of helicopters, ground-attack aircraft, aerial refuelling tankers and an airborne command post.

The USAF HC-130, which was introduced in 1965, has served in the latter two roles

Air interdiction (AI), also known as deep air support (DAS), is the use of aircraft to attack tactical ground targets that are not in close proximity to friendly ground forces. It differs from close air support because it does not directly support ground operations and is not closely coordinated with ground units. Unlike strategic bombing, air interdiction is not meant as an independent air campaign, as its ultimate purpose is to aid ground operations rather than to defeat the enemy by air power alone. Can't F-15 or B-1 with smart weaposn to the same thing

Forward Air Control Aircraft (FAC-A), Forward air control is the provision of guidance to Close Air Support aircraft intended to ensure that their attack hits the intended target and does not injure friendly troops. This task is carried out by a forward air controller may form part of a Fire Support Team or Tactical Air Control Party, they may be ground based, airborne in fixed-wing aircraft or in helicopters It only has a pilot and agian is lack of range might hamper it use in this role

Anti Maritime (AM) is concerned with the suppression of surface combatants. More generally, it is any weapons, sensors, or operations intended to attack or limit the effectiveness of an adversary's surface ships.

Today, air anti maritime is generally conducted by stand-off attacks using air-launched cruise missiles or air-to-surface missiles.

[Olefin]

remember we are talking about what would be flying in 2000 and needed in 2000

unless you are in the Middle East the days of air combat are over (unless you count dirigibles and ultra lights over Arkansas) as are long range bombing missions (when aviation fuel is literally being watched over like gold bricks today)

so what is left to use scarce aviation fuel on

transport flights

patrol/recon

close air support - especially when your side doesnt have tanks and they do - which given the fact that the US left most of their tanks in Germany is a fact of life for both MilGov and CivGov

the A-10 is perfect for two of those missions - and actually can perform the counter air mission as well if needed when the planes they are engaging are dirigibles, ultra lights and the odd Cessna or Piper Cub that New America managed to get into the air


and I dont agree with what canon says about next to no av gas - there are still working oil wells and refineries in the US - it didnt say 100 percent knockout it said 60 percent - and if you process a 42 gallon barrel of oil you will get 4 gallons of jet fuel from it along with lubricants, gasoline and diesel fuel

plus as "A River Runs Thru It" explained their is still air transport going on between MilGov in New England and the rest of the US with the air facilities in NJ acting as a landing and refueling station - that doesnt mean anyone is swimming in it but it does mean they have enough for essential missions - so the question is what aircraft get parked and what get used

F-15's and B-1's are great but unless there is a need to lay down a load of whoopass on a big target or the Russians in San Antonio get their hands on that off shore air platform and get all those helos airborne again they really dont hav a mission in 2000

[rcaf_777]

Another Question should be what is it going to carry

what is the us going to have left is the way of aircraft muntions I thinking that Iron Dumb Bombs are about all that left but where do you think that they would be kept

Would the location surrive the war intact

[Olefin]

Most likely ammunition dumps were dispersed early in the war - and the Colorado Springs government has been moving stuff that way since 1998 - so possibly they may have moved a lot of ordinance that way along with the nuclear warheads they grabbed

and there are a lot of old dumb bombs around - if you postulate that the Gulf War didnt occur then the US may still have stuff left over from WWII and Korea and Vietnam that can be used

and compared to making missiles and smart weapons, making ammo for the Gatling Gun is a lot easier done -

[Rainbow Six]

Re: A10's in the United States, I presume that the vast majority of Warthogs would have forward deployed to the various combat theatres during the opening months of the War where they were most needed, so any remaining in the US would most likely have been used in training roles (plus maybe the 18th Tactical Fighter Squadron in Alaska).

I know that A10 training is now done at Davis Monthan Air Force Base in Arizona, but does anyone know which base would have carried out pilot training in the late 1990's in the T2K timline It seems to me that area would be the most likely location to find any A10's that are still in the US in the year 2000.

[Olefin]

Just to give you an idea here are the ANG squadrons that operated it during the time the Twilight War would have occurred

103d Fighter Wing - Bradley ANGB, Connecticut 1979-2008
118th Fighter Squadron

104th Fighter Wing - Barnes ANGB, Massachusetts 1979-2007
131st Fighter Squadron

110th Fighter Wing - Battle Creek, Michigan 19912009
172d Fighter Squadron

111th Fighter Wing - NAS/JRB Willow Grove, Pennsylvania 1988-2011
103d Fighter Squadron

115th Fighter Wing - Truax Field, Wisconsin 1981-93
176th Tactical Fighter Squadron

174th Fighter Wing - Syracuse, New York 1979-89
138th Fighter Squadron

Meaning you could have spares, ammo, etc.. at any of those bases still around in 2000 - and that doesnt count training squadrons and other deployments

[Olefin]

As to ammo - more than 100,000,000 rounds were made for the GAU-8/A in our timeline - give the Cold War not coming to an end and the war itself - and the fact that the Dutch and other navies used the gun as an AA gun - there are most likely a lot of rounds still in storage

and while the AP round needs depleted uranium the HE round - the PGU-13/B doesnt need it - its the same round if I remember right that the Apache uses

so ammo for the gun wont be a problem for any surviving A-10's - in fact that is probably why they will still be effective support aircraft - I doubt by 2000 the US military has many surviving Mavericks or other guided munitions left - but the A-10 pilot just needs his eyes

and his slower approach speed means all he needs is his eyes to get on target

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Unfortunately the AH-64 and the A-10 cannons don't use the same round.
The 30mm ammo for the AH-64 is 30x113mm
The 30mm ammo for the A-10 is 30x173mm
Even the projectiles are different so that ruins any idea of salvaging one to make the other