Pre-nuclear wartime production.

[Olefin]

Our GM when we did Last Submarine made a lot of the adventure about recovering torpedoes and other equipment and electronics to repair the SSN (which was already in government hands but had a non-functional weapons system and thus couldnt be used for war patrols or the mission overseas until it was repaired)

Actually thats one thing that the Challenge Magazine article on getting to the M1 tank plant in Ohio completely glossed over - sure there wasnt a bunch of tanks sitting there waiting to be grabbed by the players - but an intact tank plant would be a gold mine of spare parts,engines, armor plate, etc.. - especially since MilGov is probably sitting on as many as 100-200 M1 tanks that need repairs and they are back in operation if not more - 20 crated engines and transmissions, new barrels and a couple of truckloads of spare parts would be worth far more than one or two operational M1's

[rcaf_777]

The supply of tanks and surplus parts in the US might be a reason why the US agree to give up their tanks and AFV on departing from europe, minus key part of course.

I mean in CIV or MIL Gov has acess to some stockpiles, why not start making newish stuff.

This would also explain why the germans were keen to have them, as their means of production is gone.

[RN7]

The supply of tanks and surplus parts in the US might be a reason why the US agree to give up their tanks and AFV on departing from europe, minus key part of course. I mean in CIV or MIL Gov has acess to some stockpiles, why not start making newish stuff.

This would also explain why the germans were keen to have them, as their means of production is gone.

I dunno about Germany completely losing its tank production capability. Before the war the assembly lines for the Leopard 1 and 2 tanks was in Munich, Kiel and Kassel at various stages. Munich was a nuclear target, but I don't think Kassel and Kiel were.

[Olefin]

I think the US gave up as much equipment as they did primarily because outside of the Russian forces in Alaska and Texas there wasnt much need for heavy armor at home. The Mexican forces didnt have much left and what they had was basically mostly light armor

Now if they had known they were about to face a home grown enemy they may have changed their minds about that

Some of it as we discussed must have got sent to CENTCOM (thus explaining the larger tank numbers in the US units there after Omega and the reinforcements arrived from Europe as seen in the RDF Sourcebook) but they left the vast majority of it in the hands of the Germans - basically as compensation for taking what was left of the German and possibly the Danish merchant marine with them and for the oil necessary to get them all home.

[Olefin]

By the way one thing to keep in mind too is that the US Army Depots at places like Red River and Anniston would have been very busy trying to get as many older stored tanks as possible back into trim to be used by either our allies (M48's for the Turks for instance) or to be used as replacements or even to add some armor to the light divisions that were being formed - i.e. I would rather have a battalion of old M48 tanks to give me some armor than none at all.

And there were a significant amount of older tanks in the US that could have been used long before they had to start raiding museums to get armor

[chico20854]

Attached is a summary from a 1987 Congressional Budget Office report of what weapon production rates were at the time...

It too will go on my new website!

[Olefin]

M-2 Bradley 540 792

Keep in mind that we had higher production rates than that if you are looking at either reset or remanufacture of Bradleys when I was at BAE in York during the 2008-2014 time period - those rates are probably new builds

(for about a year and a half during that time period between the reset and remanufacturing lines we were processing over 125 a month at the height of the effort)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I still wanna see my M70A2 Puller in the unofficial official non-canon canon weapons timeline

[mpipes]

And those rates Chico quotes are not the MAXIMUM production rate.

Was not Anniston able to produce M-1s as well as refurbish them I know for my game, I had two intact M-1 production lines in Anniston as well as two production lines and a refurbishment/repair line at Lima. I used the V2.2 timeline with production beginning to ramp up to wartime after the invasion of Belarus.

[Webstral]

Some of this discussion is covered in some detail elsewhere in this collection of threads. I think there's room for flexibility in the numbers by the time we get to Jan 97. By that time, the war will have been on for almost 18 months. Which US production lines are functioning at what capacity will be based on what was happening in July 1995 but will be subject to whatever decisions one imagines the DoD and Congress making after that. We would sell some items in massive quantities. We would sell others in limited quantities. China would not be the only market, necessarily. If other US customers get swept up in an arms race, sales of M1 could go up. One would have to settle definitively on a set of political developments in late 1995 and early 1996 to have a basis for imagining how production of the various arms in question would be affected.

[Olefin]

One thing to keep in mind as to ramp ups of production - things like castings, tank guns, engines, transmissions have long lead times - in some cases up to a year

So even assuming that the US ramped up tank and AFV production with the start of the Russian Chinese war it would take nearly a year to get all those lines up to capacity for new production.

Now reman and reset are different - those could be expanded more quickly in some cases - but you dont just suddenly get another 1000 tank engines

its the same with ship production - you can accelerate new ships already in the pipeline that at the least have been laid down and all major parts in hand but unless you were in series production and ordered long lead items years before you cant suddenly rush out a dozen new DD's or submarines from scratch

[jester]

I would think rather than building new items from scratch which has been covered by many. And the big issue is not the items, but the parts to put these items together.

I would also like to add,

SKILLED PERSONNEL to do this. Simply put, brain drain. We lost a lot of people at the end of the Cold War who either retired or went on to other industries. So, rounding them up and getting their skillset back would take time. Or training new people would also take time.

REFURBISHING EQUIPMENT IN STORAGE:

This is easier than rebuilding from scratch, but would still require new parts and components. And it would also require skilled personnel.

Otherwise, aircraft that have been properly mothballed can be brought online in a month IF the right people are available.

Smaller ships again if properly mothballed could be brought online in about that amount of time. Six months to a year for capital ships.

For other vehicles, about 30 days turnaround from disassembly to rebuild provided spares and talent are available. In some cases the time can be much less. Basicaly the less complicated the vehicle the quicker the turnaround.

A reading of a production facility, they once the line is up and producing could rebuild and put out about 200 Humvees a month. That is of course multiple lines producting round the clock which during War time would be assumed.

Another assumption, if we were at war time production all shifts would be at max capacity unlike now where the bulk of the workforce is during he day shift and the swing and graveyard are a fraction of day shift.

I do wonder if any of us are considering full staffed round the clock production 24-7 at the same rate. Unlike in our life times, swing and graveyard shifts tend to be much less than day shift.

The big problem I see has already been mentioned. Much like being in a fast paced advance. Out running your supplies. So that your lines are all shut down due to a lack of parts.

Next. Personnel as I mentioned. Skilled personnel to do the work, or training them. Even being on an assembly line will take six months to get up to speed.

And personnel to man this gear. I would imagine there would be a draft or recall of troops within their IR obligation.

But, where would we get enough people who knew how to operate these systems on active duty A lot of guys from the Cold War era would have 3 issues.

1.) Our skills have perished.
2.) Technology has advanced that a lot of it is alien to us.
3.) Time has attacked us and lowered our Con, Agility and Stature.

[unkated]

SKILLED PERSONNEL to do this. Simply put, brain drain. We lost a lot of people at the end of the Cold War who either retired or went on to other industries. So, rounding them up and getting their skillset back would take time. Or training new people would also take time.

This depends a lot on which timeline. The v1.0 timeline does not include a halt to the Cold War, or a build down. This is an issue for V2 or v2.2 or 2013.

(And if you think NATO's build down was severe 1987-1996, to me the WP build down in the same period is..... more extensive.)


Uncle Ted

[pmulcahy11b]

As far as small arms, most firms, even small ones, already producing small arms would receive "build for us or else" orders from the US government. It may even mean that troops receive a hodgepodge of calibers and arms by the TDM.

I once played in a game where the players were given double starting funds, but the new draftees were told they would receive little from their new units other than food, heavy weapons, and transportation.

[jester]

Well, the hodge podge of weapons is easy. That happens normaly as it is.

Specific contracts are given for the lower receiver and that's it. Another company does the upper, another the barrel and then the other parts are contracted usualy other system, like say the sights to someone else who may use subcontractors for the actual parts and simply assemble them.

This I can see being done with a lot of equipment, from mess kits to packs to smaller vehicles.

I would also think that every model of pickup truck, SUV and ATV and jeep of the year of the TDW would be taken and painted camo, OD or white with black lettering "Gov Vehicle" and of course whatever number of next years models who made it to the show room.