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The Best That Never Was 2 (Prototypes)

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  • I could have sworn I had written about these, but I can't find a post about it now, so apologies if this is mostly a rehash (and now that I think on it some more, I may have only posted it on a Dark Conspiracy message thread elsewhere).

    Back in 2018, Gun Jesus did a video on a Szescei & Fuchs double-barrel bolt-action rifle. Intended for dangerous game hunting, it provides a quicker follow-up shot than a conventional bolt-action with higher ammunition capacity than a tradition double-barrel. Poking around on their website, I found they fall into 7 cartridge sizes: varmint rounds (.17-.22), .30-06, 8x68mm S, .375 H&H Magnum, 9.3x62mm Mauser, .416 Remington Magnum, and .470 Capstick. The Remington Magnum has both side-by-side and over-under configurations, the 8x68mm S is only an over-under, and all the others are only side-by-side. For the Hummingbird in small calibers, I only figured stats for .22 Hornet, which is the most powerful of the available rounds. These are absolute show pieces with engraving and plating and all sorts of decoration, so possibly appropriate for a very rich character to have. While marked as BA for rate of fire, they should be allowed 2 fire actions at SA before having to reload; if only 1 shot is fired before reloading it will eject a live round, since the bolt cycles both barrels' actions simultaneously. The magazine numbers all have "+2" to indicate that both barrels can be carried loaded along with a full magazine.

    Hummingbird (5.6x35mm, .22 Hornet)
    Wt 3.5 kg, ROF BA, Dam 3, Pen 1-Nil, Blk 7, Mag 8+2, SS 3, Rng 63

    Lions Dream (7.8x63.1mm Springfield .30-06)
    Wt 4.4 kg, ROF BA, Dam 5, Pen 2-3-Nil, Blk 8, Mag 6+2, SS 4, Rng 69

    Blue Boy (8x68mm S)
    Wt 5.2 kg, ROF BA, Dam 5, Pen 2-4-6, Blk 8, Mag 4+2, SS 5, Rng 75

    Elephants Life (9.6x72.4mm .375 H&H Magnum)
    Wt 5.2 kg, ROF BA, Dam 6, Pen 2-4-6, Blk 9, Mag 6+2, SS 6, Rng 82

    Russian Five (9.3x62mm Mauser)
    Wt 4.3 kg, ROF BA, Dam 6, Pen 2-4-6, Blk 9, Mag 6+2, SS 6, Rng 83

    Big Five Royal Blue / White Tiger / African Queen (10.6x72.4mm .416 Remington Magnum)
    Wt 5.2 kg, ROF BA, Dam 7, Pen 2-3-4, Blk 9, Mag 6+2, SS 7, Rng 90

    Mokume / Celtic (12.1x72mm .470 Capstick)
    Wt 5.4 kg, ROF BA, Dam 8, Pen 2-3-4, Blk 10, Mag 6+2, SS 7, Rng 103
    The poster formerly known as The Dark

    The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

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    • Originally posted by Vespers War View Post

      Back in 2018, Gun Jesus did a on a Szescei & Fuchs double-barrel bolt-action rifle.
      That's too juicy to ignore! You mind if I do some research on it and come up with stats on my own
      I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

      Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

      Comment


      • Originally posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
        That's too juicy to ignore! You mind if I do some research on it and come up with stats on my own
        Please do. Their own website is where I got the gun weights and barrel lengths; those plus the bullet diameter and case length are the main numerical variables for the spreadsheet I built based on the FF&S construction system.
        The poster formerly known as The Dark

        The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

        Comment


        • FV721 Fox Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Wheeled) (CVR(W)) Variants


          Some of these are well known but I'll put them all here in the one place for ease of reference. Note that at least one of each of these vehicles exists today.

          The FV721 FOX CVR(W) is a well known vehicle with a 30mm RARDEN autocannon firing from a three round clip. One of the nice things about the RARDEN is that once the clip is inside the weapon is sealed and no gasses escape into the turret. A conversion kit was made for the FV101 Scorpion CVR(T) creating the FV107 Scimitar CVR(T) but the Fox turret1 also was fitted to the FV423 (issued to the Berlin Brigade), the M113 and the Alvis Saladin.

          Note that some FV721 FOX CVR(W) were fitted with a ZB298 ground search radar but these never had a specialised typology. The FV432 conversion mentioned above had this as standard.

          While the 30mm RARDEN was good Alvis also tried out some other variations for niche roles, and all but a few were simply turret swaps:

          Fox Scout 7.62mm chaingun or GPMG2
          Fox MILAN 7.62mm chaingun or GPMG and twin MILAN post2
          Fox AA Oerlikon 20mm
          Panga FT700 7.62x2
          Panga FT800 12.7/7.62
          Panga GKN 7.62x1
          Stoat/Pole Cat GKN 7.62 turret (as used on the standard FV432)
          Night Fox w/thermal instead or radar2
          Fox Blow/Jav 7.62mm chaingun or GPMG (replace MILAN with other missile)2
          Thunder Fox 7.62mm chaingun or GPMG and HVM missile
          Fox "Glow" NBC reconnaissance (no weapon). This little guy is massively sealed and the interior has a nuclear spall liner.

          While none of the turrets fitted to the FV101 Scorpion CVR(T) could be fitted to the FV721 FOX CVR(W), all the turrets on the Fox could be fitted to the Scorpion. This means you can have some really weird and whacky Scorps in your game.

          1I can't find its designation
          2This is the same turret and the systems are interchangeable

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          • There was also an experimental Fox shown at the 1982 British Army Equipment Exhibition with the one-person FMC turret equipped with a 25mm Bushmaster M242 chain gun and a coaxial 7.62mm.

            As far as I know that one doesn't exist anymore, but the Vixen does, the unarmed variant with a turret blank carrying the smoke grenade launchers.
            The poster formerly known as The Dark

            The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

            Comment


            • In this month's, well the November 2021 issue of, Military Modelcraft International, there is a 1/72 model build of Obiekt 195. (Object 195 Or is it "Obyct"):



              W-Model model kit in scale 1:72, WB109 is a NEW tool released in 2021 | Contents, Previews, Reviews, History + Marketplace | T-95


              Crewless turret with a 152mm gun and "auxilliary cannon". Looks wile the latter can be used an an AA gun ()

              Is this James Langham's "T95 (Ob'yct 1321)" in his 'The Last Soviet Tanks'

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              • Ob'yekt or Ob'jekt. I've seen both. English translation, Object or in this context, Prototype.
                Last edited by pmulcahy11b; 11-10-2021, 08:22 AM. Reason: Clarification of the way the Russians use the term "Ob'yekt." And then, a misspelling...and then another. Sheesh!
                I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Vespers War View Post
                  There was also an experimental Fox shown at the 1982 British Army Equipment Exhibition with the one-person FMC turret equipped with a 25mm Bushmaster M242 chain gun and a coaxial 7.62mm.

                  As far as I know that one doesn't exist anymore, but the Vixen does, the unarmed variant with a turret blank carrying the smoke grenade launchers.
                  Didn't the FV722 Vixen have the GKN-Sankey turret with a 7.62 I have seen one with the turret somewhere, I think it's here in Australia

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                  • just found this and thought it would fit here. the key is production cost at less than 50 dollars. it would be good for truck crews or ship's crews kind of like M3.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cawest View Post
                      just found this and thought it would fit here. the key is production cost at less than 50 dollars. it would be good for truck crews or ship's crews kind of like M3.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watchv=PQK9JNsrq_8
                      Got that -- though I don't remember where I put it. (I think Best Shotguns That Never Were.) However, the T2K cost is significantly more than $50.
                      I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                      Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
                        Got that -- though I don't remember where I put it. (I think Best Shotguns That Never Were.) However, the T2K cost is significantly more than $50.
                        i think i am going to make it fire darts underwater. the russians have a pistol with 4 barrels (4.5mm) for underwater use.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cawest View Post
                          i think i am going to make it fire darts underwater. the russians have a pistol with 4 barrels (4.5mm) for underwater use.
                          The Russians also have a pair of amphibious longarms (they're smoothbore, so technically not rifles) - the 5.66x39mm APS and 5.45x39mm ASM-DT, plus the rifled amphibious bullpup 5.45x39mm ADS. Only the APS would be available in most T2K timelines, with the ASM-DT accepted for service in 2000 and the ADS in 2013.
                          The poster formerly known as The Dark

                          The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

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                          • Duxford Tanks. Chieftain Marksman. 17/06/2012

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                            • Some "never was" and / or Frankentanks here: 'Alternate AFVs for the '70s'. - https://www.alternatehistory.com/for...he-70s.424117/

                              Plus a M551 Sheridan Low Altitude Parachute drop from youtube () part way down the third page.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Brit View Post
                                Some "never was" and / or Frankentanks here: 'Alternate AFVs for the '70s'. - https://www.alternatehistory.com/for...he-70s.424117/
                                Nice find!

                                I have highly inappropriate feelings toward that Israeli upgrade of the M60A2 on the second page of that thread.

                                - C.
                                Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996

                                Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog.

                                It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't.
                                - Josh Olson

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