in the begining...

[Draq]

I'm thinking for a starting party, a medic, a vehicle crewman with smg, a combat engineer with shotgun and m79, the rest, riflemen.

[Olefin]

I'm thinking for a starting party, a medic, a vehicle crewman with smg, a combat engineer with shotgun and m79, the rest, riflemen"

for your crewman it helps if he is either a driver or a gunner - no fun at all to "obtain" a vehicle and not have the skill to either drive it or operate its gun if it has one

all depends on your vehicle mix - if they get a LAV or Bradley or a tank at minimum they will need a driver and gunner - also keep in mind per the game they are supposed to start at full fuel and ammo load - make sure the players know otherwise - they have money which could be used to buy ammo and you could have that ammo, if you want, instead of on them be a buried cache they had to leave behind earlier in the battle and thus you have to get to it to be able to get the vehicles fully supplied

[Slappy]

We usually went pretty small. 5-7 PCs, maybe a couple of NPCs to fill out skills (i.e. if none of the PCs wanted to be a mechanic). Once ran with a local Polish Free Army liaison as an interpreter and guide. Was a good way for the GM to feed information and drive action.

That means maybe two vehicles. A hummer and a LAV-25 are a nice pair. They have decent abilities, but don't make the PCs invulnerable. They still need to run from real opposition. And you can run a still and tanker trailer, one on each.

Also did this once with the PCs just on horseback. Really limits the amount of stuff they can carry, but keeps them fairly mobile and keeps the profile down. Ran into some issues as I don't personally know that much about horses, but if you do can be a nice twist.

[Olefin]

I wonder if a lot of people do a Hummer and a LAV-25 because that is what is in the guidebook as an example - personally I prefer the Bradley - a LAV-25 is pretty much dead meat against any kind of tank where a Bradley at least has the TOW's on board - and since carrying capacity is pretty limited for TOW's you have to really limit when you use them -

for instance in my last campaign we had a Bradley and used a TOW to save our butts when we got caught in the open by a Russian convoy - but you had to really think about using one because the chances of finding a replacement TOW anywhere outside of Krakow is basically nil

[Twilight2000v3MM]

Problem with heavy armor is just that... its heavy. Try to get a 30+ ton Bradley over a local wood bridge meant for 3 ton trucks. Plus, they. Suck. Fuel. And maintenance is an issue. Atleast with HMMVs and a LAV 25 you can get common auto parts as spares.

Smaller is better especially in the age of you MIGHT see a tank.

[Olefin]

I see it more as the ability to actualy have a chance to survive in a firefight and getting out of the Kalisz area

having light armor that only stops a 7.62 isnt going to help much getting ouf of dodge - and when you have marauders that have BMP's (Krakow and Kalisz), tanks (Warsaw) and other fun things you can run into then that light vehicle is going to be Swiss Cheese or worse very quickly

in my last game we ran into a BMP and a BTR-70 supported by two mortars with our Bradley - we were able to win - barely - because we had the TOW and a 25mm that outranged what they had

if it had been a LAV and a Humvee we would have been burning debris in the field we were crossing and campaign ended on day 2 - with the LAV blowing up when the BMP nailed it (we got it with the TOW before he got off his missile)

now later on you can go for light vehicles or horses - but you have to survive to get out of Dodge first when Kalisz, Krakow and the Madonna have all kinds of nasty ways to take out a light vehicle

[Slappy]

There are obviously a bunch of ways to do it, but I think it depends on what sort of group you have. You just have to change tactics when on foot or mounted. Your escape becomes more an escape and evade than straight up combat. Stay off the roads, travet at night, look for isolated patrols you can pick off.

[Olefin]

and I agree with that totally - if all you have is a Hummer or truck then it becomes a cat and mouse game where it could take you a very long time to get out of dodge

also it depends where you start the scenario - is it several days later and you are miles from Kalisz - or are you in the midst of blasting your way out and you play the firefight getting out of the pocket

[LT. Ox]

A nod

Me, I like the LAV-25, it has a good cargo load fair survivability and fair weapons mix, it's swim is ...well it is made for swimming right
I do not go along with fuel as a factor, they all use fuel faster than can be replaced which leaves choices and that my friends is what the game is about.
What I see is the main problem is who the game is for
To me it is about the players, the GM has to enjoy his work but the game has to be driven by the mix of players involved.
Do they want to shoot it out or do they want to think their way around
What equipment do they have, whatever they want, within reason and the desire of the DM to work with them I mean what DM wants to run a Twilight game of two corps of tanks
I like to keep things within the USA realm as far as equipment goes, I know it and have worked with a lot of I,t I get more enjoyment out of riding an M-113 or Even a Bradley or LAV then a captured Russian or a picked up German or French ride, it feeds my wants.
I tend to play longer and have more fun but that is me.

[Olefin]

Remember as I mentioned my first campaign was run by a GM who loved the military part of the game - meaning that we had a bunch of firefights - as he said "you rolled the tank, might as well put it to the use that it was intended for"

and I agree completely with Ox - a campaign is really what the players are looking for - thats why I love the game - there are so many ways to play it and things you can do that there really is no "right way or wrong way" to play the game - as long as its fun for all concerned

[Adm.Lee]

That's a large and impressive group to start. I think I ran/started Kalisz at least 4 times, always with 1 PC/player, and sometimes 1 NPC for the GM to feed them information ("Sir, do you really want to do that"). I've run for 3 players and for 8.

Since then, I've gravitated to adding more PCs and NPCs, since once a character gets hit, they're likely out of action for a good long while.

[Draq]

Im sure somebody has done a red campaign.

[Draq]

Besides armor and fuel economy, speed is also a factor. The Bradley is better armored but the lav and Humvee are much faster. Can't kill what you can't hit. And the Humvee is a smaller target too. And take into consideration the SLEP for the lav, upgrading the armor to withstanding 14.7mm/.50cal, but sacrificing its amphibious ability.

[CDAT]

I am working on an idea right now. Each player will make two characters, One will be a SpecOps of players choice. The second one I will have them make a version of them self. Either as they are now more or less, or as they would have been at the start date. The plan is then to have the game start with a two fold mission. Part one, the SpecOps are sent to recover a device, so the players will gear up as they want, but anything that the GM (me) thinks is out of place make them explain why they want to take it. Everything also needs to fit in a Chinook along with the NPC's I am thinking at least a Pilot, Copilot, Crew Chief and two Gunners. I am thinking six Operators with two FAV's, if I do not end up with six players, I will fill out the team with NPC's after they recover it and are on their way back the Helo get shot down and this is were the players take over. As this is going on the second team will that will be made up of players as them self's will be assigned to the US Embassy either working for the Embassy or military assigned there. They will be sent out on a mission of utmost importance to the Ambassador, saving his daughter who is working as a DR. without boarder. They will be heading out in a couple of unarmored SUV's and what ever gear they think is appropriate again having to explain anything that does not feel right to the GM. The players are all that the Ambassador has available. As they get to picking up the DR. they receive a a radio call for any unit that can hear them that they are going down with precious cargo (the first players group). When both groups hook up is when I plan for the strikes around the world, and the team is on their own.

[Apache6]

What does your group want

I've 'started' campaigns as a GM four times.

Once was 'straight from the book.' Each player had a PC. No NPCs, though they collected a few along the way. They had a LAV and a motorcycle.

Second time I gave each player two PC and a "T2K platoon" of NCPs, each PC was a small unit leader (platoon cmdr, squad leader, or vehicle cmdr). They started out as a kampfagroup with a tank platoon (2 M1), a mechanized platoon (1 M2, 1 M113, 1 BMP-2), a motorized infantry platoon (1 LAV-25, 2 "armored 5 tons w HMG", and a HMMWV TOW), a literally horse mounted cavalry platoon (with 15 riders), and an engineer platoon (M-88 ARV, See-tractor and a dump truck). Each player had one PC as a platoon leader and one as a squad leader or vehicle commander (they could not be in the same unit). The "group commander" was not a PC but a 'salty NPC LtCol' who had his own LAV-25. There was also a 'npc controlled artillery battery' (a M-109 howitzer, a BM-21 MRL and two 120mm mortars (only the mortars had a good supply of ammo) and a logistics detachment (one HEMMT with large still and tanker and a HMMWV with field kitchen trailer, which often ended up carrying wounded). They were tasked as the rear guard of their brigade. We played this out by shifting between RPGing and minature wargaming. The "colonel" often took advice from the PCs. It was a doomed force, as it lay smack in the path of a motorized rifle division's advance. It gave us lots of epic last stands. We gamed this over the course of about 6 months, playing about once a month until the 'unit' was eroded down to a smaller party, consisting of one PC and two or three NPCs for each of the players. One of our players lost each of his PCs a couple of times over and I let him 'switch personas' to one of the NPCs.

Third time, the PCs were a local resistance cell in Tennessee fighting against the New Confederacy (our version of New America), Soviet Spetnez made an occasional appearance for some reason, and trying to survive. Each player played pretty much themselves.

Fourth time each player got one NPC, they started off as members of the 5th Infantry Division COC, including liaison officers (explaining Special Operations and Polish PCs) when it was overrun. Several of the PCs started off with vehicles, they were shot to pieces when the division was overrun. They had to escape and evade. They eventually stole a UAZ-469 and a Ural truck. I had them liberate a few POWs when a couple of players (who were a literal married) couple wanted to join. In addition to the PCs, one of the NPCs they liberated became their medic.