Rebuilding America: Industry Priorities

[kalos72]

Skills are the most important part actually...great point.

Texas has alot of the base raw materials, its just that by 2000 most of the locals aren't US citizens much less trained skilled workers.

But outside of that, there must at some time come the conversation about where I can secure other resources needed for the industry you want to build.

If you need coal, where is it or who can I get it from

[TrailerParkJawa]

I keep wondering about the nuclear strikes on the oil refineries. The death toll among employees on site when they are hit is probably 100%. However, I've wondered if after the Thanksgiving Massacre who would actually show up to work In any industry Once the first refinery is hit a few days after TDM I bet absenteeism at the refineries is pretty high.

So that means people with those skills might still be out there but just scattered to the winds

[Legbreaker]

Once the first refinery is hit a few days after TDM I bet absenteeism at the refineries is pretty high.

And very likely to stay that way. At first because of the risk of further strikes, later as the workers struggle to feed themselves and their families while fighting off others who want what little they may have.

So that means people with those skills might still be out there but just scattered to the winds

A few, probably, but starvation, disease, fallout, and outright murder (as mentioned above) would take care of a large percentage. Many, if not most modern people don't have the necessary survival skills to manage after the break down of society and it's support networks.

[TrailerParkJawa]

A few, probably, but starvation, disease, fallout, and outright murder (as mentioned above) would take care of a large percentage. Many, if not most modern people don't have the necessary survival skills to manage after the break down of society and it's support networks.

Agreed, and i believe it's gotten worse in the decades since T2K was written. At least back then there were still some grandparents around that had some old fashion skills they could pass on.

[Raellus]

Food and clean water are definitely 1 and 2. Nearly every American gets 100% of their food from a grocery store. Even if a HW scenario didn't take place, the damage to the country's transportation infrastructure (and fuel production/distribution) would mean most of the country would go hungry- not necessarily starve to death, although some undoubtedly would, but the majority of the surviving population would not be getting their daily minimum calorie intake. Yeah, the food is there, but is it getting to consumers That puts fuel at #3.

[kalos72]

But if you think about it, the survivors have been going at this new world for 2-3 years now. Anyone who's around say in Texas in late 2000 early 2001 will have the basic necessary skills to survive. Food water, shelter style at least.

This topic is what happens moving past that really.

At some point, some strongman whose community has enough food and water for their needs is going to say "Damn it would be nice to get some power for that machine shop in town. I wonder if we can get us some coal..."

Any community that has made it into the timeline of the US based modules is past the basic need to eat and drink water. No

[Raellus]

Any community that has made it into the timeline of the US based modules is past the basic need to eat and drink water. No

A fair point. I guess that I haven't thought too far past that phase, at least as far as CONUS scenarios go. My bad.

It's not an industry, per se, but how about a functioning currency system I think that we all agree that barter would be the most form of exchange c.2000, but that won't work for long on a large scale. All that other stuff on the list is going to need to be paid for, unless the U.S. has devolved to a command economy (hard to imagine when the seminal WWIII was against communism), so you're going to need a currency system that all the actors are going to accept, or at least recognize. Does the dollar still work c.2000, what with the Civ/MilGov split and all that

-

[kalos72]

great point.

My team is working on an oil backed currency, since east Texas has large amounts of oil. Haven't worked out the details though...

Might just be a "chit" type thing that good for IDK 10 gallons of crude or 5 of a refined product or something.

[Targan]

But if you think about it, the survivors have been going at this new world for 2-3 years now. Anyone who's around say in Texas in late 2000 early 2001 will have the basic necessary skills to survive. Food water, shelter style at least.

This topic is what happens moving past that really.

At some point, some strongman whose community has enough food and water for their needs is going to say "Damn it would be nice to get some power for that machine shop in town. I wonder if we can get us some coal..."

Any community that has made it into the timeline of the US based modules is past the basic need to eat and drink water. No

Yes and no. Can't fault your logic, but you're talking about individuals or small groups. This discussion is about much larger groups. It's like the difference between hunter-gatherer societies and agrarian societies. Once you have larger numbers of people living in larger, fixed communities everything changes. Just for starters, that's when you get specialisation. Same with climbing back up from the apocalypse. Instead of each family spending most of their time just surviving, now you've got people assigned to specific jobs. That means they need someone else to be doing the leg work to feed them and water them while they do something else.

I suspect this is what Raellus is talking about. Feeding one family and finding enough water to get by is a completely different situation to supplying drinking water and irrigation water and sanitation and decent quality food to entire communities. That's a seriously big task, and it will make or break larger settlements and groups of settlements. So yes, as you say eventually they're going to start thinking about power for the machine shop, but reliable, safe water and food supplies will always be the most important things.

[Bullet Magnet]

Now I'm thnking, it might not be a bad idea to work out what might be the priorities on like a timetable basis. By that I mean listing out what people would most likely prioritize at various stages after the "event".

Like in that first year after, as people have already said, food, clean water, and defense would be the primary things on people's minds.

Then, moving on, we can get to the two to three years after, as kalos brought up. Then, maybe 5 years, going up to ten years after, by which time the war should be over and the government would be trying to reassert authority.

As always, just a thought I had, after reading the newest posts tonight.

[Adm.Lee]

A fair point. I guess that I haven't thought too far past that phase, at least as far as CONUS scenarios go. My bad.

It's not an industry, per se, but how about a functioning currency system I think that we all agree that barter would be the most form of exchange c.2000, but that won't work for long on a large scale. All that other stuff on the list is going to need to be paid for, unless the U.S. has devolved to a command economy (hard to imagine when the seminal WWIII was against communism), so you're going to need a currency system that all the actors are going to accept, or at least recognize. Does the dollar still work c.2000, what with the Civ/MilGov split and all that

-

I would argue that someone's going to start printing money, if it isn't a government, it will be a bank. This popped up in my mailbox yesterday:

http://www.delanceyplace.com/view-archives.phpp=2987

During one of the many Panics before the Federal Reserve, some banks started giving each other IOUs, so they could give cash to their depositors, and these notes started moving into general circulation anyway. My guess is that some state or local governments will get together with their local banks to work out some kind of arrangement.

[Olefin]

great point.

My team is working on an oil backed currency, since east Texas has large amounts of oil. Haven't worked out the details though...

Might just be a "chit" type thing that good for IDK 10 gallons of crude or 5 of a refined product or something.

See if you can get a copy of The Texas Israeli War - 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Texas-Israeli_War:_1999

I have the book myself - its mentions Texas currency - if I remember John Wayne is on one of the bills

[unkated]

It seems to me that once immediate concerns for food and water are met, the next steps divide into a two level effort, especially if there is some form of regional governance.

1. Communities building things for their immediate need and use, such as power production and creation of building materials. Specific communities will be limited to producing what is locally available in the way of raw materials and manufacturing facilities. While you can get a workshop-sized operation up and running fairly easily almost anywhere, scaling that up to industrial output takes time and resources to build the facility, and other skills to operate it.

I agree that fuel will be an early need - without fuel, goods or components cannot be moved very far (for example, moving grown cotton to a gin and weaving mill to turn it into cloth, and then move it further to a clothing factory. Fuel will be needed and wanted both locally and as a commodity for use across the broader area. While many communities may be able to expand food production enough to spare some for alcohol production, having an oil well or two is not an option for most locations.



2. To make this bootstrapping effort somewhat faster, some amount of coordination between communities may be helpful. For example, in the clothing example above, the location with the cotton gin will be told to put it into operation; nearby farming areas may be told (that if they want to have clothes) to grow cotton with any land beyond immediate need food production; a town next to the one with the gin might be told to build a weaving mill (because Central knows it will be next to a cotton gin), and the town next to that one will be told to set up a clothing factory (or the whole chain could be set up in one larger town). My point is that to set up these more complex production chains efficiently, they will need to be planned.

And items NOT built in region 1 because they set up this chain will need to be provided by another region.

The planner can be a government or an entrepreneur, but I'll suggest that a government, able to use both a carrot and a stick, will set this up quicker by imposition than an entrepreneur trying to set it up just on his own.

Uncle Ted

[kalos72]

See if you can get a copy of The Texas Israeli War - 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Texas-Israeli_War:_1999

I have the book myself - its mentions Texas currency - if I remember John Wayne is on one of the bills

Great suggestion! Never heard of it before to be honest.

I also would love to go through the Traveller world I think, to see how the US become a 2nd world power or whatever. But I cant find one source, it looks like its all spread out over different modules and guides and what not.

[Targan]

I also would love to go through the Traveller world I think, to see how the US become a 2nd world power or whatever. But I cant find one source, it looks like its all spread out over different modules and guides and what not.

Traveller:2300. And there's a fairly detailed timeline in the basic rules set. France is the pre-eminent power in 2300, but not to the same extent that the RL USA is today. In 2300 the US isn't far behind France, and as far as it's interstellar holdings and space forces go it's in a long-term alliance with Australia and combined they're a force to be reckoned with. Then there's Manchuria, and the various German states which aren't one unified Germany but act closely together. And I think the successor state to South Africa is pretty powerful too. In the T:2300 universe a lot of a nation or alliance's power comes down to how much Tantalum it has access to. Tantalum is a fictitious mineral crucial to the manufacture of FTL stutterwarp drives.