Satelitte Attacks

[kalos72]

Is there a documented timeline for when there was this supposed satellite attacks

What's the consensus, does this population believe that every single satellite is dead by 2000/2001

[Matt Wiser]

The birds in GEO and HEO (High Earth Orbit) are safe. It's the LEO ones-reconsats, for example, that would be vulnerable to ASAT attack.

As for timeline Once the U.S. entered the war, that's when the F-15s with ASAT missiles got turned loose, and the Soviets responded with their ground-based system.

[kalos72]

Ok that makes sense then...thanks.

What type of satellites live in those safe zones

There are many accounts of the satellites being "dead" so things like communications and the like being down a well. Is that more earth based tech issues or satellites

[swaghauler]

The birds in GEO and HEO (High Earth Orbit) are safe. It's the LEO ones-reconsats, for example, that would be vulnerable to ASAT attack.

As for timeline Once the U.S. entered the war, that's when the F-15s with ASAT missiles got turned loose, and the Soviets responded with their ground-based system.

This! I've always had the debate that the GPS satellites were so important to the West that they would be protected at all costs. Even duplicate ground stations exist for GPS. I think the original developers were unaware of just how important they were to the Airforce and the Navy.

That being said, I could see CONSIDERABLE gaps forming in the GPS coverage (like a 50-50 chance of getting a signal), especially for ground units. I know that in the Allegheny National Forest today, you only have about a 75% chance of finding a GPS signal through the canopy. I can only imagine how much harder to get triangulation it would be in Twilight2000.

[Comanche]

1st post so I apologize if I screw something up.

found a diagram of various orbits:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Comparison_satellite_navigation_orbits.svg

from wikipedia - based on a short search (30 min) for asat weapons I don't think the GPS would be able to be targeted. That's not to say there wouldn't be problems from the nuclear exchanges (damaged - destroyed ground stations) or maintenance issues.

[Comanche]

1st post so I apologize if I screw something up.

found a diagram of various orbits:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Comparison_satellite_navigation_orbits.svg

from wikipedia - based on a short search (30 min) for asat weapons I don't think the GPS would be able to be targeted. That's not to say there wouldn't be problems from the nuclear exchanges (damaged - destroyed ground stations) or maintenance issues.

[lordroel]

I would assume that the US is not able to replace losses suffer to satellites during and after the war for some time.

[RN7]

Some discussion about this and space warfare on earlier threads.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=4207

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=5068&highlight=satellites

[Raellus]

Could/would the EMP effect of airburst nukes affect satellites Was there any Cold War experimentation with using low yield nukes to kill satellites

Also, could debris from ASAT kills in turn kill other satellites Even a single, small, errant nut or bolt travelling at orbital speed could destroy or irreparably damage a satellite.

What about damage to the ground-based command and control systems, relays, links, etc. Would that pretty much make even still-functional satellites more or less useless

I'm in the camp that there would be very few satellites still operational come 2000, and those that aren't of much use due to the destruction of ground-based satellite coms infrastructure.

[kalos72]

The idea here is could New America type organization launch some small comms satellites come 2001/2002

I am using New America as a hybrid MP organization and am trying to determine the type and placement of that tech.

Having some international comms become available would be nice...sure I can throw the AN/PRC-70 type for continental maybe if I use CW but something more advanced would be nice.

[Matt Wiser]

Some of the "national security" payloads are in HEO, and others-like Ferret (ELINT/COMINT) are in GEO, as are military comsats.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Only way you could launch more satellites is with a space-capable rocket of some form, such as a converted ICBM. Would any be left

[raketenjagdpanzer]

The idea here is could New America type organization launch some small comms satellites come 2001/2002

I am using New America as a hybrid MP organization and am trying to determine the type and placement of that tech.

Having some international comms become available would be nice...sure I can throw the AN/PRC-70 type for continental maybe if I use CW but something more advanced would be nice.

Not no but hell no.

Firstly you would need a very, very particular type of fuel. You'd need a working multi-stage rocket. You'd need a vast amount of brainpower together, you'd need at the very least a whole-regional-wide weather reporting system (multiple weather stations)...the list goes on and on.

I have opined that the US might be able to do it with unused/unlaunched ICBMs or SLBMs, hopefully there'd be enough AF or NASA personnel still alive to scrape together to get one inserted in the right orbit, but New America No way. The closest thing they have to having a "launch facility" is their hold in Florida, and Canaveral and Kennedy are melted ruins. Plus any tech they would need there that wasn't blasted to its constituent atoms was subjected to EMP.

Even assuming they had willing or coerced personnel to do it they would have to spend years and years and years building a launch facility...then they'd have to re-learn the precision manufacturing to build a rocket, then produce fuel, etc.

Yes Nazi Germany launched V2s under extremely trying circumstances, but those were suborbital IRBMs being used for bombardment. Getting something into a useful orbit is another matter entirely.

[The Dark]

This! I've always had the debate that the GPS satellites were so important to the West that they would be protected at all costs. Even duplicate ground stations exist for GPS. I think the original developers were unaware of just how important they were to the Airforce and the Navy.

That being said, I could see CONSIDERABLE gaps forming in the GPS coverage (like a 50-50 chance of getting a signal), especially for ground units. I know that in the Allegheny National Forest today, you only have about a 75% chance of finding a GPS signal through the canopy. I can only imagine how much harder to get triangulation it would be in Twilight2000.

GPS satellites would be hard to knock down. They're at ~20,200 kilometers altitude (and GLONASS is at 19,100 kilometers, not much easier). The only ASM-135 ASAT test hit Solwind P78-1 at 555 kilometers. Iridium satellites would be more vulnerable; they're only at about 781 kilometers.

The Soviet IS system worked at least moderately well, but it was canceled in 1983, well before any of the Twilight War scenarios. The last armed Almaz station had deorbited in 1977, Terra-3 and Fon both failed, and Polyus/Skif broke up after separation from Energiya in 1987. The Vympel bureau tried to integrate an ASAT on the MiG-31 Foxhound, but it was a troubled program that wasn't ready before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

[.45cultist]

Not no but hell no.

Firstly you would need a very, very particular type of fuel. You'd need a working multi-stage rocket. You'd need a vast amount of brainpower together, you'd need at the very least a whole-regional-wide weather reporting system (multiple weather stations)...the list goes on and on.

I have opined that the US might be able to do it with unused/unlaunched ICBMs or SLBMs, hopefully there'd be enough AF or NASA personnel still alive to scrape together to get one inserted in the right orbit, but New America No way. The closest thing they have to having a "launch facility" is their hold in Florida, and Canaveral and Kennedy are melted ruins. Plus any tech they would need there that wasn't blasted to its constituent atoms was subjected to EMP.

Even assuming they had willing or coerced personnel to do it they would have to spend years and years and years building a launch facility...then they'd have to re-learn the precision manufacturing to build a rocket, then produce fuel, etc.

Yes Nazi Germany launched V2s under extremely trying circumstances, but those were suborbital IRBMs being used for bombardment. Getting something into a useful orbit is another matter entirely.

The Chinese technicians were the most valuable part of "Rockets Red Glare".