Howling Wilderness

[Raellus]

I can see both sides but an HW with many smaller problems can be enjoyable to more groups. If everything goes bad you get the current HW, if the players can solve one or two problems in a macro way, you get something just a little bit better in one region. If you have a HUGE macro campaign where you can get traffic moving on the Mississippi, Tamiflu to the great lakes states and petrochemical fertilizers and insecticides from Texas to the South, maybe just maybe a real difference can be made.

Agreed, Kato. This is what I'm calling the Small Solution- a toned-down version of HW where things are still bad but not that bad.

[Olefin]

Agreed, Kato. This is what I'm calling the Small Solution- a toned-down version of HW where things are still bad but not that bad.

And agreed here as well Raellus and Kato - never said to get rid of all of HW - there are good things in there - but overall the way its written its so hopeless that players can't really do anything but barely survive

and that is completely different from the previous American modules where players could really make a difference by their actions

as obviously HW was written to show - i.e. NA isnt written saying the kidnapping of NA's leader hadnt happened yet or failed - it very definitely said it had succeeded and NA was disorganized as a result of it

[mpipes]

Seriously, how many of us would be able to survive if the shelves at the local supermarket were bare

That really depends on how many guns and bullets you have versus the other fellow with the food, doesn't it

[Raellus]

That really depends on how many guns and bullets you have versus the other fellow with the food, doesn't it

That's a nightmare scenario that doesn't bode well for the future of American civilization. Who needs a mega-drought when your own neighborhood turns on itself

[Draq]

Agreed, Kato. This is what I'm calling the Small Solution- a toned-down version of HW where things are still bad but not that bad.

Now that is an idea

[mpipes]

That's a nightmare scenario that doesn't bode well for the future of American civilization. Who needs a mega-drought when your own neighborhood turns on itself

The REAL NIGHTMARE is where you are holding barbeques with the neighbors as the main course!!

I was struck at how dire HW painted and things and remember thinking that very thought during my first reading.

[kato13]

If you want a dire scenario have a worse than the 1934 drought in 16 major food producing states. Have a flu in a half dozen more. Have a hurricane swamp Florida or the Gulf Coast. Have transportation systems break down providing food to the East coast. Have locusts in the South and forest fires in California.

Im starting to think 2017 could be a template for any updated disaster thoughts as the Flu is predicted to be massive this year.

(Australian flu rates - they generally are a good predictor)


edit, We could also move the Mexico Earthquake a bit north as well.

[Olefin]

There are lots of issues with HW that have more to do with GDW rushing to meet deadlines and not researching or thinking things out the whole way - many of which I have already spelled out - and by the way none of these have anything to do with the completely unrealistic drought and food situation that if you do the math destroys the US as a country and civilization most likely for good

Things like how did the Mexicans occupy southern CA and much of AZ when the water that keeps them alive comes from aqueducts whose pumps have no power and even if they did would have needed water to be pumped from areas under US control - meaning the US had the perfect weapon to use to take back both areas and instead just provided water to the Mexicans

Or like the US military absolutely falling apart at home when apparently the Germans and the UK have no issue getting replacements at home and they can keep their units at least semi-intact - but ours cant recruit one new soldier

Or having two Soviet divisions come over to the US in Alaska as clearly stated in the Soviet Vehicle Guide and then disappear completely from the forces available to MilGov in HW

Or having 43000 men come home and only 1400 are ever used

Or having the 28th Inf not go home as a unit and report to Harrisburg and get sent to wipe out the White Death in western PA

Or having the NA forces in the Ozarks just about wipe out a unit that is mostly either European combat veterans or elite training troops - again as I said the only way that happens is if NA is all either Rangers or Special Forces

Or having Civgov catch the head of NA along with enough material to show clearly the threat to the US that they posed but decide to not communicate it to Milgov and bury the hatchet to go after NA instead - which 100% would have happened - sorry that right there alone makes HW just fall apart

I can go on if you like

[Apache6]

Unrealistic that more units are not organized

I've always thought it was completely unrealistic that the Nation (US) did not sustain a boot camp program where they continued to train replacements.

Would the quality of training have declined Yes. Would the units be less well equipped Yes. Would individuals still enlist based on the fact that they (and their families) were going to get fed Yes. Would their be conscription Yes; into both "Federal and State units."

If you look at Germany at the end of WWII, they were still training units and individual replacements.

For role playing this gives lots of opportunities.
1) Your a grizzled veteran given command of a dozen ill equipped, half trained "children." What do you do to ensure they survive

2) Your a ill equipped, half trained "youngster," assigned as an individual replacement to a company of grizzled veterans. How do you adapt Do you desert or try to excel

3) You are press ganged into the Army. What now

4) You are an over age veteran, called out of retirement and asked to form a unit out of a unit of ill equipped, half trained "children." You have to stop an attack from a superior force in 10 days. What do you do for training, fortificagtion...

5) You are a disabled veteran tasked to form an lead an elite strike force out of a squad of physically fit but ill equipped, half trained "children."

I added a bunch of green recruits in a potential players tasking that can be found by searching State Reconstruction Team 9.

[Olefin]

And for those saying - well what would they arm those new recruits with - well the US has one hell of a lot of guns - and many of them would be more than adequate for militia units - including a lot of old surplus WWI and WWII guns like Springfield, Mauser and Garand rifles - if they were good enough to be used in WWII they would be more than good enough to be used to arm new units here in the States

[Raellus]

Making Lemonade

Or having 43000 men come home and only 1400 are ever used

Yeah, that kind of boggles the mind. It's a stretch, but maybe the homecoming troops were all demobilized but given the choice to reenlist. On paper, all 40k are demob'd, hence the befuddling figure, but in reality, a good percentage re-enlist after finding out that their loved ones are dead or behind Mexican lines. The U.S. Army might have to be reorganized to effectively make use of the re-uppers.

As for ways that player characters could help rebuild the devastated U.S.A. of HW, here are a few that spring to mind:

• Locating and securing a rumored cache of drought-resistant heirloom seeds. Maybe send them to retrieve sees from that underground Norwegian cache in the arctic circle. That's an adventure module all in itself.
  
• Along the same lines, but with GMO'd drought-resistant seeds.
  
• Something with water. Secure a dam or provide security for a construction crew repairing an existing dam or building a new one.
  
• I changed RESET in one of my campaigns for plans for a functioning cold-fusion reactor. Clean, almost unlimited energy would be of great benefit in rebuilding the U.S.A.

I don't know, but I like the idea of taking the lemons presented in HW and finding ways for player characters to make lemonade.

[Olefin]

I think that you can make the lemons and do it with Marc's blessing as long as there is a good reason behind it - from what he told me he is willing to revisit areas if you do it with some kind of mission as part of it

i.e. you bring the 28th back to PA but maybe its to locate more supply caches

or you can have a bunch of guys from the 28th sent to get the supplies that Civgov just grabbed in Allegheny Uprising that they are planning to keep for themselves to use to get to the Ohio Valley - but instead they are going to make sure they stay in PA - it would be a way to finally have Civgov versus Milgov combat in the game which would be a new dynamic

[WallShadow]

I think that you can make the lemons and do it with Marc's blessing as long as there is a good reason behind it - from what he told me he is willing to revisit areas if you do it with some kind of mission as part of it

i.e. you bring the 28th back to PA but maybe its to locate more supply caches

or you can have a bunch of guys from the 28th sent to get the supplies that Civgov just grabbed in Allegheny Uprising that they are planning to keep for themselves to use to get to the Ohio Valley - but instead they are going to make sure they stay in PA - it would be a way to finally have Civgov versus Milgov combat in the game which would be a new dynamic

Or the Governor of PA hears rumors from the recon of Bolivar, WV, with its stacks and stacks of provisions and military gear. Time for a surprise takeover and haul-back of vitally-needed ammo, spare parts, medicine, and shelf-stable food that is sitting there. That could be a campaign right there, with a "civilian" convoy trying to sneak its way close to the supply depot, then a covert insertion, and decapitation of the NA command structure, leading to chaos and an opportunity to shove the Nammies (New Americans) out of the town before the supplies can be destroyed or the security forces can regroup. Maybe some of the more amenable Allegheny militias might contribute some forces for a cut of the haul. And the refugee camps at Reading, Pottstown, and Allentown might be canvassed for volunteers for manpower and/or morale boosting--heroes returning to their camps with supplies, tools, arms, and a story to tell about potential for improving their lot--hope for the future.

[Cdnwolf]

Or having 43000 men come home and only 1400 are ever used

I think Army of Darkness answered some of this question. The Milgov was also trying trying to re-establish control of major cities in its region and may have sent units in to pacify the area.


The player characters are members of an advance party sent
into New York City to gather information which will permit the
Military Government to re-assert control over the city. Milgov
is particularly interested in three basic categories of information:

Census: One of the Military Government's first steps in securing
control of the New York area must be to count and register
the inhabitants. No one knows for sure how many of New York
City's eight million inhabitants are still alive, and how many remain
among the empty glass and steel towers of America's
largest city.
Once the government knows how many people remain in New
York City, they will be able to take steps to organize the survivors
into work forces and begin the city's reconstruction.

Salvage: With registration, the government can begin collecting
taxes from the inhabitants-taxation being the ultimate sign
and proof of a government's control over its citizens. New York
City must still hold vast treasures which Milgov can use to
secure its own position and prestige; treasures such as
salvageable computers and telecommunications gear, copper
tubing, refined steel, chemicals, heavy machinery, ball bearings,
telephone wires, diesel and gasoline engines, auto and truck
parts, and a wealth of other flotsam and jetsam of civilization.
Milgov taxes will consist of a portion of the items salvaged. Initially,
these will be used to get local government back on its feet.
The players are to recover and/or take steps to preserve any
surviving electronic and telecommunications equipment, plus
other material or data of technical, historical, or cultural value.
Particular attention is to be paid to securing computers and data
processing equipment which was only slightly damaged by EMP.

The players are ordered to prevent the further deterioration
of the city's buildings, and salvage what they can from those
which are not in suitable condition for reoccupation. Private
salvage operations are to be encouraged, registered and licensed,
and taxes levied (in kind) on any salvage operations.

[Targan]

Ah yes, the NYC census mission. The original trigger for Major Po's "Target Zero" doctrine.