US 2nd Fleet Questions

[kato13]

One Marine LAI platoon (LAV-75s from TF Semper Fi)

Assuming those should be LAV-25s

[dragoon500ly]

Assuming those should be LAV-25s

You are correct sir.....I truly hate auto correct!!!

[kalos72]

If the locks weren't hit with nukes, and the area was heavily reinforced on the ground, then it seems that air strikes were the only other true option.

I think Patriot batteries were the long range defenders, 2-3 batteries of Patriots along with standard Chaparrals and Dusters maybe

[kalos72]

If you were to include a Marine unit:

22nd MEU (MAGTF/CE), deployed as Landing Force 6th Fleet (LF6F)
1) BLT 3/8 (GCE)
a) 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment : 1103 men
b) Artillery Battery: 4 M198, 4 M101A1
c) Tank Platoon: 5 M60A1
d) Amphibious Assault Vehicle Platoon: 12 AAV
e) Reconnaissance Platoon
f) Combat Engineer Platoon
2) HMM-162(Composite) (ACE)
a) HMM-162 oeGolden Eagles: 12 CH-46E
b) det HMLA-269: 4 AH-1T, 3 UH-1N
c) det HMH-464: 4 CH-53E

Carried on the Wasp Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Wasp (LHD 1)
USS Shreveport (LPD-12)
USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41)
USS Yorktown (CG-48)
USS Leyte Gulf (CG-55)
USS Newport News (SSN 750) - Not sure if this is correct
USS McFaul (DDG-74)

[dragoon500ly]

If the locks weren't hit with nukes, and the area was heavily reinforced on the ground, then it seems that air strikes were the only other true option.

I think Patriot batteries were the long range defenders, 2-3 batteries of Patriots along with standard Chaparrals and Dusters maybe

During this time frame, probably a Patriot battalion split to cover both ends or a reinforced IHAWK battalion to provide the long/medium range SAM protection envelope with a Chaparral/Vulcan battalion to provide the short/point defends protection. By the time of the Twilight War, the only Sisters were in a couple of NG battalions, they were Sisters with no SAM/MANPADS.

[unkated]

If the locks weren't hit with nukes, and the area was heavily reinforced on the ground, then it seems that air strikes were the only other true option.

I think Patriot batteries were the long range defenders, 2-3 batteries of Patriots along with standard Chaparrals and Dusters maybe

V1 canon tells us (in Satellite Down) that

• The Panama Canal was not hit in the initial TDM period (USS Virginia passed through it in December 1997)
• The Panama Canal was still operational in March 1999 (USS Virginia was ordered to pass through it to get to the Atlantic).

Uncle Ted

[dragoon500ly]

If you were to include a Marine unit:

22nd MEU (MAGTF/CE), deployed as Landing Force 6th Fleet (LF6F)
1) BLT 3/8 (GCE)
a) 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment : 1103 men
b) Artillery Battery: 4 M198, 4 M101A1
c) Tank Platoon: 5 M60A1
d) Amphibious Assault Vehicle Platoon: 12 AAV
e) Reconnaissance Platoon
f) Combat Engineer Platoon
2) HMM-162(Composite) (ACE)
a) HMM-162 oeGolden Eagles: 12 CH-46E
b) det HMLA-269: 4 AH-1T, 3 UH-1N
c) det HMH-464: 4 CH-53E

Carried on the Wasp Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Wasp (LHD 1)
USS Shreveport (LPD-12)
USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41)
USS Yorktown (CG-48)
USS Leyte Gulf (CG-55)
USS Newport News (SSN 750) - Not sure if this is correct
USS McFaul (DDG-74)

The only two possible problems are;

The USS Wasp, IMHO it would be more likely for a Tarawa-class or even an Iwo Jima-class LPH to be committed, especially with the lack of Harriers in your air group.

The Aegis ruisers would most likely be with one of the carrier battle groups, if a missile cruiser would be assigned, it would be one of the older ones If not a missile destroyer or two.

Why The newest cruisers tended to be assigned to carrier battle groups or independent surface action groups, even the SAGs based on battleships made do with a missile destroyer for the AAW slot. At the very least it would be one of the older missile cruiser classes. The Navy tended to place it's more modern and powerful ships to its high priority targets, like the carriers.

[Cdnwolf]

I managed to get my hands on some of the later editions of Harpoon books and would love to run a naval battle using the TWL2000 timeline. See really how well a CV Battle Group stands up to a nuclear strike at sea.

[kalos72]

Were the ESG's not around in the 90' Wikipedia seems to say that the ESG's were designed to be like a smaller CV Group. Give some presence but not as much as the CV Groups.

For something like securing the PCZ, I think it would be size appropriate.

[dragoon500ly]

The Wasp-class was intended to smaller and cheaper copies of the Tarawa-class LPH, needless to say, the Wasps ended up being the largest amphibious ships in the world.

Major differences between the classes are the Wasp has:
1. Increases Harrier support capability.
2. Movement of the stern elevator to the starboard side of the flight deck.
3. Redesign of the docking well to support 3 LCACs.
4. Less vehicle storage space, 22,000 square feet vs. 33,000 square feet.
5. Less bulk cargo storage space, 101,000 cubic feet vs. 110,000 square feet.
6. Modification for better anti-aircraft defence.
7. Extensive medical facilities, double in size with six operating rooms and room for 600 bed patients.

The Wasp is designed to support MAF/MAB operations. The Wasp will be better as to support VTOL operations in spite of its lack of a ski jump, her larger flight deck is considered sufficiently large enough to operate rolling takeoffs for heavily laden aircraft.

The stern docking well of a Wasp-class can accommodate 3 LCAC or 4 LCU or 2 LCU and 3 LCM-8s or 17 LCM-6s or 45 LVTP-7. In addition 34 LVTP-7s can be carried on the third deck.

The Wasps are intended to replace the Tarawas starting with the commissioning of the sixth ship in mid-1996.

[kalos72]

I am good with moving some of the ships to a previous/older class, that makes sense, but does the size/strength of the unit make sense as well

[dragoon500ly]

I think so, just to be a tad more realistic...add a couple of freighters to carry the NGs and their gear. Perhaps add several LCVPs and LCMs as deck cargo.

Another possible is to add either the British or Dutch Caribbean Station warship with a company of Royal Marines or Dutch Marines, I do know that both countries do exercise with US Marines on a regular basis, there is even a photo in Armies of NATO`s Central Front showing Dutch and US Marines on a joint exercise.

Just a few more random thoughts.....

[kalos72]

Yeah, we were going to add some support ships but those aren't nearly as critical because of all the civilians options out there.

We had talked about adding another DDG and SSN to the mix to cover both ends of the PCZ. Also, some 10 or so Point Class Cutters for patrol duties but we were wondering if they would/could be up armed to meet more of a combat role vs interdiction.

[dragoon500ly]

More likely it would be additional FFG/FFs, if only because those classes were the most numerous ships in the fleet at this time.

As far as the cutters go, the Points normally carry two .50 caliber machine guns and 2 Mark 19 AGLs, it's possible that one or two 20mm cannons might be fitted. As far as them being assigned to Panama...these are 82 foot boats with a max range of 1,500 nautical miles at 8 knots, so they could reach, but these boats are used for port security and search and rescue, they don't have the habitation for extended periods.

Most likely, a small number might be carried as deck cargo into the AO and off loaded in port.

[kalos72]

I still have some modifications to make here ad I think the Air components might be overkill but its the basis I think...

Sixth Army - U.S. Army South (ARSOUTH)


92nd Infantry Brigade oe PR NG - San Juan, PR
1) 1- 65th Infantry Battalion (Air Assault)
2) 1- 295th Infantry Battalion (Air Assault)
3) 1- 296th Infantry Battalion (Air Assault)
4) 1- 162nd Field Artillery Battalion
5) E Troop/ 192nd Cavalry Regiment
6) 892nd Engineer Company
7) 292nd Military Intelligence Company
8) E Btry/ 201st ADA Regiment
9) 292nd Support Battalion (Fwd)

193rd Infantry Brigade (Light) - Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, PR
1) 4- 10th Infantry Battalion (Light)
2) 5 -87th Infantry Battalion (Light)
3) 1 -508th Infantry Battalion (Airborne)
4) D Battery, 320th Field Artillery Regiment
5) 2-265th Air Defense Artillery : 24 Hawk
6) E Troop, 193rd Cavalry Regiment
7) 9th Engineer Company
8) 193rd Support Battalion (Fwd)

53rd Infantry Brigade - Tampa, FL:
1) 1-124 Infantry Battalion (Light):
2) 2-124 Infantry Battalion (Light):
3) 3-124 Infantry Battalion (Light):
4) 2-116 Field Artillery Bn: 105mm towed
5) 153rd Engineer Co:
6) Troop E, 153rd Cav:
7) E det/265th ADA:
8 153rd Support Battalion

210th Aviation (Combat) at Howard AFB - 4xAH-1/ 6xOH-58 - Air Cav Troop

114th Aviation Company (Combat Support) at Howard - 15x UH-60 - Air Assault Troop

3rd Platoon, 242nd Aviation Company (Medium Helicopter) at Howard - 8xCH-47

1097th TRANS Coy (Medium Boat) Fort Davis - 6xLCU 1600s and two LCU 2000s

2-162nd Field Artillery (PR): 105mm Towed

1-162nd Field Artillery (PR): 155mm Towed

448th ENG Battalion (Combat Heavy) - PR

1-111th Aviation (Attack) (FL): AH-1

164th Air Defense Artillery Brigade - Orlando, FL:
1-265th Air Defense Artillery Daytona Beach, FL: Chapparal
2-265th Air Defense Artillery Orlando, FL: 24 Hawk
3-265th Air Defense Artillery West Palm Beach, FL: Chapparal


Special Operations Command South (USSOCSOUTH)

7th Special Forces Group- 3rd Battalion in Panama

1st Battalion, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne) - KY

2nd Battalion, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne) - KY

1-75th Ranger Battalion - Ft Stewart, GA
711th SOS, 919th Special Operations Group Duke Field, FL: AC/C-130



U.S. Marine Corps Forces, South (USMARFORSOUTH)

22nd US Marine MEU (MAGTF/CE)
1) BLT 3/8 (GCE)
a) 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment : 1103 men
b) Artillery Battery: 4 M198, 4 M101A1
c) Tank Platoon: 5 M60A1
d) Amphibious Assault Vehicle Platoon: 12 AAV
e) Reconnaissance Platoon
f) Combat Engineer Platoon
2) HMM-162(Composite) (ACE)
a) HMM-162 oeGolden Eagles: 12 CH-46E
b) det HMLA-269: 4 AH-1T, 3 UH-1N
c) det HMH-464: 4 CH-53E
3) Combat Logistics Battalion 8 (CLB-8) (LCE) - Camp Lejeune NC
1x Company, 2nd Maintenance Battalion
1x Company, 2nd Medical Battalion
1x Company, 2nd Supply Battalion
1x Company, 2nd Dental Battalion
1x Company, 8th Engineer Support Battalion
1x Company, 2nd Military Police Battalion

3rd Marine Combined Battalion - Guantanamo Bay Cuba
1x Headquarters & Service Company
Delta Company, 4th Tank Battalion
Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 26th Marine Regiment
Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion, 26th Marine Regiment
Delta Company, 2nd Battalion, 26th Marine Regiment
1x Battery, 5th Battalion, 10th Marine Regiment
1x Platoon, Echo Company, 1st Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion 1x Platoon, Echo Company, 1st Combat Engineer Battalion
1x Platoon, Echo Company, 8th Communications Battalion
1x Platoon, Echo Company, 2nd Intelligence Battalion
1x Platoon, Echo Company, 2nd Radio Battalion
1x Platoon, Echo Company, 6th Motor Transport Battalion
1x Flight, Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 567

Marine Air Group 26 New River, NC
i) HMM-261(C) oeRaging Bulls: 12 CH-46E
ii) HMM-264 oeBlack Knights: 12 CH-46E
iii) HMM-266 oeFighting Griffons: 12 CH-46E
iv) HMH-362 oeUgly Angles: 22 CH-53D
v) HMH-461 oeSea Stallions: 12 CH-53E
vi) HMLA-167 oeWarriors: 13 AH-1T, 11 UH-1N

Twelfth Air Force - Air Forces Southern (AFSOUTH)
198th Tactical Fighter Squadron - San Juan PR: 24 F-16 A/B

24th Tactical Air Support Squadron: 10 A-37
(had 4 A-7, 2 A-10, 2 C-130 units attached from CONUS)

61st Military Airlift Group Howard AFB, Panama
310th MAS: 10 C-130H

103rd TFS, 111th TASG NAS Willow Grove, PA: 18 A-10




Fourth Fleet - U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (NAVSO)
Wasp Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Wasp (LHD 1)
USS Shreveport (LPD-12)
USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41)
USS Yorktown (CG-48)
USS Leyte Gulf (CG-55)
USS Newport News (SSN 750) - Not sure if this is correct
USS McFaul (DDG-74)
US Navy Additions:
USS Cole (DDG-67)
USS Boise (SSN-764)
US Coast Guard Additions:
2 Hamilton Class - up-armed for combat
4 Famous Class - up-armed for combat
10 Point Class - up-armed two Mk 38 Mod 0 weapons systems

Naval Mobile Construction Battalion SEVEN (NMCB 7) PR