Long wars and industrial mobilisation

[Olefin]

BAE is still remanufacturing and rebuilding Bradley's and they are building the M109A5 plus for foreign customers as well as the M109 PIM for the US Army. They also are continuing to make M88A2 conversions as well. They retained the ability and the tooling to make new Bradleys and M109's and M88's with the most recent new builds being a series of 8 M88A2's for Iraq.

Oh and it's John Deere by the way.

And you need to add the tank plant for the Stingray which would have been around for sure for the Twilight War as well as new build M8 light tanks at BAE in York.

[Olefin]

And you have the JLG mfg plants in PA that made parts for the MRAP's for Oshkosh as well as material handlers for the military. Those facilities in time of war could easily be converted to make light support and light armored vehicles.

[CDAT]

This is true of Lights and "Y Bodies" (we call them "squats" because they have very low roofs but are as wide as a "B Body" with a 450 truck front end. About 50% of "B Bodies" have Kevlar "liners" that are attached to the inside of the fiberglass hoods. These would become worn and begin to "detach" from the inside of the hood over time. They would then be removed. The "Super B's" were completely armored (these are also used as SWAT vehicles).

a Light would be AV 1 on every location BUT the engine compartment. The engine compartment is UNARMORED (unless an AV 2 bumper guard is installed at the front).

a Squat/Y Body would have AV 2 on the cargo box and AV 1 on the driver's compartment (NIJ Level 3A Kevlar panels in the doors and NIJ Level 3A Lexan windows). The engine compartment is UNARMORED (unless an AV 2 bumper guard is installed at the front).

a B Body would have AV 2 on the passenger and cargo compartments and NIJ Level 3 (rifle) Lexan windows (AV 2) on a 1-3 (1D10) or NIJ Level 3A (AV 1) on 4-10 (1D10). The engine compartment will have NIJ Level 3A side panels under the fiberglass hood on a 1-5 (1D10) and NIJ Level 2 armored mesh over the front of the radiator (AV 1/2). B Bodies seldom have pushbars/bumper guards because the hood opens forward to the front and they can interfere with the opening of the hood.

a Super B will have AV 2 armor everywhere but the hood. The hood will be MADE of Kevlar at NIJ Level 3A (AV 1) in order to save weight. They also have a large "mesh guard" over the radiator that ups the AV to 2 on frontal hits. Push guards are seldom fitted because the hood opens forward and a guard could interfere with opening the hood.

Run Flat Tires: Unlike military run-flats, these will only reduce the severity of a hit by one level (ie a Major hit becomes a Minor hit) for 100km. After that, the tire must roll OVER its Wear Value or fail.

Self Sealing Fluid/Fuel Systems: These will reduce an engine or fuel hit by one level just like run-flats above. The engine sealing system will allow the engine to run for 100km or 30 minutes on a Major hit and the engine will run for 10 minutes on a Destroyed hit IF a roll OVER its Wear Value succeeds.

This may be what they are supposed to have, but after working at the FED for ten years, not a single one from the van sized to the Semi sized had this. So I do not know if they (the private companies) just went cheap or if the standards have changed. Also it was interesting that the larger you went the newer was less reliable then the older.

[RN7]

BAE is still remanufacturing and rebuilding Bradley's and they are building the M109A5 plus for foreign customers as well as the M109 PIM for the US Army. They also are continuing to make M88A2 conversions as well. They retained the ability and the tooling to make new Bradleys and M109's and M88's with the most recent new builds being a series of 8 M88A2's for Iraq.

I did say "BAE (AAV-P7, M2/M3 Bradley, M113, M109)". and "BAE (M9 ACE, M88)".

And "Except for the Stryker few if any of these vehicles are currently being built, with other work concentrating on rebuilds and supplying components." which is they are not being mass produced.

Oh and it's John Deere by the way.

Thanks that's a typo

And you need to add the tank plant for the Stingray which would have been around for sure for the Twilight War as well as new build M8 light tanks at BAE in York.

This list is for 2017 not 1997.

I would class Stingray as an armoured vehicle not a tank, and it hasn't been built for about 25 years. The M8 was cancelled in 1997 before it went into production. The Stingray was built by Cadillac Gage now part of Textron and I believe their assembly plant is at Slidell, Louisiana which I listed under armoured vehicles.

[RN7]

And you have the JLG mfg plants in PA that made parts for the MRAP's for Oshkosh as well as material handlers for the military. Those facilities in time of war could easily be converted to make light support and light armored vehicles.

I stuck with main assembly line and engine plants only.

There are hundreds more companies and factories that make accessories and components, or who custom build vehicles and chassis from major suppliers. If you want to list them all feel free but I haven't got time to spend the next 2 years looking them all up.

[Olefin]

I did say "BAE (AAV-P7, M2/M3 Bradley, M113, M109)". and "BAE (M9 ACE, M88)".

And "Except for the Stryker few if any of these vehicles are currently being built, with other work concentrating on rebuilds and supplying components." which is they are not being mass produced.




Thanks that's a typo



This list is for 2017 not 1997.

I would class Stingray as an armoured vehicle not a tank, and it hasn't been built for about 25 years. The M8 was cancelled in 1997 before it went into production. The Stingray was built by Cadillac Gage now part of Textron and I believe their assembly plant is at Slidell, Louisiana which I listed under armoured vehicles.

FYI - the M88A2 production rates have been pretty constant for quite a long - and the Bradley was being remanufactured on a two shift line for almost the entire time I was at BAE - in fact it predated my employment there

it only finally slowed down in 2012-2013 after being that way for years

And a rate of 8 M88A2 per month is what the line was designed for - for that vehicle that is a very good production rate

I am looking at what could be done during the Twilight War time period - which is why vehicles like the M8 and the Stingray need to be figured in

[Olefin]

I stuck with main assembly line and engine plants only.

There are hundreds more companies and factories that make accessories and components, or who custom build vehicles and chassis from major suppliers. If you want to list them all feel free but I haven't got time to spend the next 2 years looking them all up.

JLG in McConnellsburg built half the M-ATV's that Oshkosh delivered - they were building close to 500 vehicles per month

So they definitely need to be added to the light armored vehicle producers if you are looking at current military production sites - it could easily get back to those numbers if need be.

[RN7]

FYI - the M88A2 production rates have been pretty constant for quite a long -

And a rate of 8 M88A2 per month is what the line was designed for - for that vehicle that is a very good production rate

FYI I listed the M88 under Heavy Support Vehicles and never made any mention about how and what sort of level it is being produced at.

and the Bradley was being remanufactured on a two shift line for almost the entire time I was at BAE - in fact it predated my employment there it only finally slowed down in 2012-2013 after being that way for years

And I stated that "U.S. armoured vehicles are currently built/rebuilt by General Dynamics, Textron and British owned BAE. General Dynamics (LAV-25, M1120 Stryker), Textron (M117), BAE (AAV-P7, M2/M3 Bradley, M113, M109). Except for the Stryker few if any of these vehicles are currently being built, with other work concentrating on rebuilds and supplying components".

That is pretty much what you are talking about, remanufacture!

I am looking at what could be done during the Twilight War time period - which is why vehicles like the M8 and the Stingray need to be figured in

Well I listed the current assembly lines and they also existed in 1997, so just add them to it.

[RN7]

JLG in McConnellsburg built half the M-ATV's that Oshkosh delivered - they were building close to 500 vehicles per month

So they definitely need to be added to the light armored vehicle producers if you are looking at current military production sites - it could easily get back to those numbers if need be.

Does JLG Industries build the chassis, transmission or engine for the M-ATV If it does I would include JLG in such a list.

[Olefin]

Description of the JLG work

The work has been split between Oshkosh Defense plants in Wisconsin and JLGs McConnellsburg plant, with JLG making 100 percent of the MATV cabs and completing 50 percent of the M-ATV assemblies. The remaining half of the assemblies are completed by Oshkosh Defense. This combined effort has produced 1,000 M-ATVs per month since December.

JLG built the cabs and completed the assembly of the vehicle - the engines came from Caterpillar, the chassis came from the Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement (MTVR) chassis that Oshkosh designed and Oshkosh's TAK-4 suspension system and the transmission came from Allison

Which is standard for vehicles - i.e. Oshkosh's assembly plant doesnt build their own engines or transmissions they bring them in and install them just like we did - same for BAE - we didnt build engines or transmissions

[RN7]

Description of the JLG work

The work has been split between Oshkosh Defense plants in Wisconsin and JLGs McConnellsburg plant, with JLG making 100 percent of the MATV cabs and completing 50 percent of the M-ATV assemblies. The remaining half of the assemblies are completed by Oshkosh Defense. This combined effort has produced 1,000 M-ATVs per month since December.

JLG built the cabs and completed the assembly of the vehicle - the engines came from Caterpillar, the chassis came from the Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement (MTVR) chassis that Oshkosh designed and Oshkosh's TAK-4 suspension system and the transmission came from Allison

JLG is a subsidiary of Oshkosh.

It builds the cabs as you have stated, but it is part of the production chain not the main assembly line. There are many other companies across the U.S. and Canada who also build armoured vehicles including MRAP's, and firetrucks, emergency vehicles, construction vehicles, buses etc who are as big or bigger than JLG and who's imput into the completed vehicle is greater. Some even market these vehicles under their own brand name. But they are custom builders not manufacturers, and that is what I would class JLG as.

If you want to list all of these companies then go ahead, I will give you a few dozen names to get you started but I think we are going way beyond the scope of this topic.

To quote the site you used "With Oshkosh beginning to gradually ramp down production of the M-ATV, complete assemblies of the new order for MATVs will take place at Oshkosh Defense plants and not at JLG. 100 percent of the cabs will continue to be made by JLG, however."

So JLG make the cabs but are not the main assembly line.

Which is standard for vehicles - i.e. Oshkosh's assembly plant doesnt build their own engines or transmissions they bring them in and install them just like we did - same for BAE - we didnt build engines or transmissions

Oshkosh doesn't build engines for any of its vehicles. All of their vehicles supplied to the U.S. military use Caterpillar or Detroit Diesel engines. I listed these engine factories.

BAE doesn't make its own engines either, in fact General Dynamics and Textron don't either, they all use Caterpillar, Cummins, Daimler-Benz, Detroit Diesel, Mack and Navistar engines. The M88 built by BAE uses a Continental engine built in America and owned by the Chinese government. In fact I forgot to list Continental so I'll add to the list.

The M1 Abrams also uses a Honeywell engine, but its fitted into the M1 at the main assembly plant at Lima.

The point being that there is a difference between a main assembly line and a custom builder.

[Olefin]

We did the assembly of the MATV - half of them were built by us - i.e. 100% of the cabs were made by JLG and half the MATV's that were made by Oskhosk were fully assembled by JLG at a rate of 500 per month

Now why would I mention that - because that shows just how quickly production might have ramped up for the war during the Twilight War that a plant that makes material handlers (i.e. telehandlers) was able to convert to build 1000 MATV cabs and fully assembly 500 MATV's a month in a time consistent with ramping up for the Twilight War - meaning that US war production during the Twilight War if it had happened in reality is probably significantly higher than the canon writers allowed for - thus allowing for more replacement armored vehicles than were seen in the canon

its interesting how little of the US military production network was actually hit during the nuclear strikes in the canon - i.e. they hit Toledo but not York PA or San Jose CA (i.e. Bradley, M109, M88) and the aircraft plants were barely touched if at all

you would think that it would have been the Soviets number one target with the refineries being number two - i.e. cutting off oil is important but it takes quite a while to get new aircraft and tank production going if you nuke the existing plants

[Cdnwolf]

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sierra-army-depot

How long to bring these back into fitness ready status.

[WallShadow]

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sierra-army-depot

How long to bring these back into fitness ready status.

I wonder if the folks setting up the Strategic Reserve stashes have packed away a bare-bones M1 remanufacturing kit with lots and lots of spares Yeah, I know, just a fancy, but nice to dream about.

[RN7]

We did the assembly of the MATV - half of them were built by us - i.e. 100% of the cabs were made by JLG and half the MATV's that were made by Oskhosk were fully assembled by JLG at a rate of 500 per month

Olefin what part of the M-ATV was built by BAE or by JLG

We know that Caterpillar supplied the C7 engine, Allison supplied the 3500 transmission, Marmon Herrington supplied the axle, and Oshkosh supplied the TAK-4 independent suspension system. What did BAE and JLG build by itself or was it all supplied by Oshkosh

Also were these individual components fitted to a vehicle body when BAE and JLG received them, or were they shipped to BAE and JLG separately and assembled on the vehicle afterwards

Was the cab an Oshkosh Core1080 crew protection system Did BAE or JLG make it or did they assemble it in parts Also did BAE or JLG actually make the armor plates and the ballistic glass or was it shipped to BAE and JLG. If so did BAE or JLG get a license from Plasan the Israeli company who designed the armor kit for the M-ATV and built it in their factory in Bennington Vermont