Sweden in T2K

[The Dark]

I think a good alternate selection for the Casablanca of Europe would be Brno. Canonically (in 2.2, at least), only Praha and Ostrava were definitely hit, and it's noted that different portions of Czechoslovakia are occupied by different factions. Since they left the Pact in 1990, they could be viewed as the closest thing to neutral in continental Europe.

[Adm.Lee]

There's historical precedent (albeit, way back during the 30 Years' War).

Even earlier, as the Swedish king was elected to rule Poland in the 1590's, which led to a war with Sweden. I don't think they should try to conquer it this time around.

I do agree, though, that it would be good politics for the Swedes to at least try to win influence with whatever communities emerge around the Baltic coast-- Poland is just one of them. Helping anyone to rebuild should make for better neighbors.

Potentially, Sweden could emerge as leader of all of its neighbors, rivalling France. Does anyone have a reference to what Sweden does in the GDW "Great Game"

[pmulcahy11b]

Antenna hasn't been on in two years. Maybe send him an email and get his input I think he is Finnish.

Antenna is Swedish, but is of Finnish extraction.

[RN7]

I don't think Sweden actually believed that its neutrality would survive a major war in Europe, largely because the Soviet's (and the Swedes) believed Sweden was part of the West. Although in the Twilight War Sweden's neutrality did seem to have been more or less respected.

Swedish neutrality since the early 19th Century was more to do with suiting themselves than any ideals about being a peaceful country. Sweden had pretty much fought itself out during previous European conflicts, and despite being the largest Scandinavian country it was rapidly overtaken by the larger European powers by the 19th Century. Also the other Scandinavian countries didn't entirely trust Sweden due to past dominance over them, and Sweden still had ambitions on Norway into the 1850's. During the two world wars Sweden had an uncomfortably close relationship with Germany for a neutral country, and British and French intervention in Norway in 1940 was as much to with preventing Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany as it was in helping Norwegian independence.

As Dark as already pointed out Sweden had a close relationship with the U.S. and NATO during the Cold War, and they also shared a lot of intelligence on the Soviets with NATO. They also traded weapons with many NATO countries during the Cold War, particularly with Britain and today most of the Swedish defence sector is British owned.

Sweden also believed in armed neutrality, and they were very heavily armed with a large indigenous defence sector. Sweden built and designed most of its own weapons, ranging from rifles to tanks, fighter jets and submarines. What they didn't design or build themselves they generally built under license, and license building of other Western arms and components only enhanced the already advanced Swedish defence sector.

Sweden wasn't targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons during the Twilight War, at least there is no mention of it. And it is likely to have survived conventional attack or invasion due to the fact that Sweden fighting with NATO would have severely compromised the Soviet's defence position in the Baltic and Arctic theatres due to the fact that Sweden has a very powerful army. This would have left a relatively intact Sweden in an advantageous position in Northern Europe at the end of the Twilight War.

Would Sweden have sent mercenary groups outside of its own territory with government backing to secure Swedish interests Highly likely. In fact I would be surprised if Sweden didn't actually send larger forces outside of its territory to secure a number of Swedish interests and there are quite a few.

1) Swedes in Finland: About 10% of Finland's population is ethnically Swedish, and over 5% of them still speak Swedish as their first language. They are concentrated in the Aland Islands in the Gulf of Bothnia, and in communities on the western and southern coast of Finland. Some naval and land forces could be sent to secure these areas.

2) The Baltic Approaches: Passing through the Skagerrak and Kattegat is necessary to enter the Baltic Sea from the west. Although Sweden shares control with Denmark and Norway, Denmark geographically dominates the region. With Denmark disorientated due to the war and nuclear attacks, I could see Swedish naval and air forces patrolling this region and some Swedish land forces on the Danish island of Zealand.

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

4) Southern Baltic Coast: As Sweden is still an intact nation, a lot of refugees will want to make their way to Sweden from across the Baltic Sea. So we could seen some Swedish naval and air activity along the southern Baltic coast which includes Denmark, Germany, Poland and the Baltic States. Also Sweden will be taking an interest in who's in charge and of any emerging threats across the Baltic region. So it is likely that it will be here that we will see most Swedish mercenary activity, volunteers with the unofficial approval of their government.


Army

Peacetime Establishment
Army: 44,500 (37,700 conscripts)
6 Military Commands (1st, 3rd, 12th, 13th, 15th divisions and 18th (Gotland) Brigade)

War Establishment (725,000 on mobilisation)
Field Army: 350,000

• 6 Armoured Brigade (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 18th, 26th)
• 1 Mechanised Brigade (10th)
• 18 Infantry Brigade (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 17th, 21st, 33rd, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th)
• 5 Arctic Infantry (Norrland) Brigade (13th, 19th, 35th, 50th, 51st)
• 9 Artillery Regiment (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th)
• 1 Aviation Battalion (1st)
• 100 independent battalions (armoured, infantry, artillery, air defence)

Local Defence Units: 250,000

• 60 Independent battalions, 400-500 Independent companies

Home Guard: 125,000

• Assorted infantry, artillery, static artillery and air defence units

Equipment
Tanks: 785 (450x Centurion, 335x Strv-103)
Light Tanks: 200 (200x Ikv-91)
APC: 600 (600x Pbv-302)
SP Artillery: 30 (30x 155mm BK-1A)
Artillery: 990 (300x 155mm FH-77, 140x 150mm M-39, 550x 105mm Type-40)
Mortar: 1,500 (500x 120mm, 1,000x 81mm)
ATGW: RB-53 Bantam, RB-56 Bill, TOW
Recoilless Rifle: AT-4, Carl Gustav, Miniman
AD Guns: 714 (600x 40mm, 114x 20mm)
SAM: RBS-70, Redeye, I-Hawk
Aircraft: 19 (17x Bae Bulldog, 2x Do-217)
Helicopter: 79 (20x Bo-105CB-3, 14x Bell-204B, 19x Agusta-Bell 206, 26x Hughes 300)


Air Force

Air Force: 8,000 (5,500 conscripts)

• 4 Air Defence Districts
• 6 Fighter/Ground Attack (FGA) Squadrons
• 11 Fighter Squadrons
• 3 Reconnaissance Squadrons
• 1 Transport Squadron

Equipment
FGA: 99 (81x AJ-37 Viggen, 18x SK-37 Viggen)
Fighter: 218 (139x JA-37 Viggen, 68x J-35 Draken, 11x SK-35C Draken)
Recce: 48 (48x SH/SF-37 Viggen)
ECM: 2 (2x Caravelle ECM/ELINT)
Transport: 30 (8x C-130E/H)
Communication: 22 (3x Beech Super King Air 200, 2x Fairchild Metro III, 16x Saab 105, 1x Saab 34D)
Training: 207 (22x J-32D/E Lansen, 30x Saab 91, 105x Saab 105, 50x B.125 Bulldog)
Helicopter: 32 (10x CH-46, 12x Super Puma, 4x Bo-105CB-3, 6x Agusta-Bell 206)


Navy

Navy: 12,000 (6,300 conscripts and including Coast Defence)

• Submarines: 12 (4x Vastergotland, 3x Nacken, 5x Sjoorman)
• Missile Craft: 31 (1x Goteborg, 2x Stockholm, 16x Hugin, 12x Norrkoping)
• Patrol Craft: 11 (4x PFI, 7x PCI)
• Minelayer: 3 (1x Carlskrona, 2x Alvsborg)
• Minehunter: 23 (3x Arko, 6x Landsort, 14x other)
• Amphibious: 12 (12x LCM)
• Support Ship: 12
• Aircraft: 1 (1x C-212)
• Helicopter: 23 (14x CH-46, 9x Agusta-Bell 206)

Coast Defence: 2,650 (including 1,700 conscripts)

• 5 Coastal Artillery Regiment
• Minelayer: 16 (10x Coastal. 16x Inshore)
• Patrol Craft: 18 (18x Inshore)
• Amphibious: 154 (14x LCM, 80x LCU, 60x LCA)
• Fixed Artillery: 98 (18x 120mm, 6x 105mm, 74x 75mm)
• Anti-Ship Missile: RBS-17, RBS-15KA, RBS-08A, RB-52
• AD Guns: 40mm

Paramilitary

Coast Guard: 600

• Patrol Craft: 72 (2x Fishery Protection, 70x Inshore)
• Aircraft: 3 (1x C-212, 1x Cessna 337, 1x Cessna 402)

[Raellus]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, RN7. You nailed it, IMO. An additional area of strategic economic interest, as far as Sweden is concerned, is the oil shale deposits in Estonia.

I took the time to check out the T2K Scandinavia Sourcebook and its depiction of Sweden, IMO, is pretty nonsensical. It describes Sweden as the most devastated of the Scandinavian countries. Not only are they badly nuked, there's a bloody civil war. It doesn't seem congruent with established canon, or historical reality. I much prefer the vision that RN7 outlined (as it aligns very well with my own).

[Targan]

Ah swedes. Great people, boring vegetables.

[ArmySGT.]

Ah swedes. Great people, boring vegetables.

Most boring people on the planet. Look for a pulse or other sign of life. Add alcohol.... Woo the best!

[RN7]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, RN7. You nailed it, IMO. An additional area of strategic economic interest, as far as Sweden is concerned, is the oil shale deposits in Estonia.

I took the time to check out the T2K Scandinavia Sourcebook and its depiction of Sweden, IMO, is pretty nonsensical. It describes Sweden as the most devastated of the Scandinavian countries. Not only are they badly nuked, there's a bloody civil war. It doesn't seem congruent with established canon, or historical reality. I much prefer the vision that RN7 outlined (as it aligns very well with my own).

Which sourcebook is that Raellus The only one I know that references Scandinavia are Boomer, with some information also in the Survivors Guide to the UK and NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook.

[kato13]

Which sourcebook is that Raellus The only one I know that references Scandinavia are Boomer, with some information also in the Survivors Guide to the UK and NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook.

I'm too lazy to cut an paste links so here is a search that lists them. They are translations from the Finnish language sourcebook that GDW either licensed or put out themselves.

http://forum.juhlin.com/search.phpsearchid=68954

Normally searches expire but I changed the expire date in the database. If it does expire search for sourcebook and user John Farson under advanced search.

[RN7]

I'm too lazy to cut an paste links so here is a search that lists them. They are translations from the Finnish language sourcebook that GDW either licensed or put out themselves.

http://forum.juhlin.com/search.phpsearchid=68954

Normally searches expire but I changed the expire date in the database. If it does expire search for sourcebook and user John Farson under advanced search.

Thanks Kato. I have Antenna's SB somewhere on file, I think it was a bit of the reservation in regards to what would be going on in T2K.

[cawest]

I don't think Sweden actually believed that its neutrality would survive a major war in Europe, largely because the Soviet's (and the Swedes) believed Sweden was part of the West. Although in the Twilight War Sweden's neutrality did seem to have been more or less respected.

Swedish neutrality since the early 19th Century was more to do with suiting themselves than any ideals about being a peaceful country. Sweden had pretty much fought itself out during previous European conflicts, and despite being the largest Scandinavian country it was rapidly overtaken by the larger European powers by the 19th Century. Also the other Scandinavian countries didn't entirely trust Sweden due to past dominance over them, and Sweden still had ambitions on Norway into the 1850's. During the two world wars Sweden had an uncomfortably close relationship with Germany for a neutral country, and British and French intervention in Norway in 1940 was as much to with preventing Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany as it was in helping Norwegian independence.

As Dark as already pointed out Sweden had a close relationship with the U.S. and NATO during the Cold War, and they also shared a lot of intelligence on the Soviets with NATO. They also traded weapons with many NATO countries during the Cold War, particularly with Britain and today most of the Swedish defence sector is British owned.

Sweden also believed in armed neutrality, and they were very heavily armed with a large indigenous defence sector. Sweden built and designed most of its own weapons, ranging from rifles to tanks, fighter jets and submarines. What they didn't design or build themselves they generally built under license, and license building of other Western arms and components only enhanced the already advanced Swedish defence sector.

Sweden wasn't targeted by Soviet nuclear weapons during the Twilight War, at least there is no mention of it. And it is likely to have survived conventional attack or invasion due to the fact that Sweden fighting with NATO would have severely compromised the Soviet's defence position in the Baltic and Arctic theatres due to the fact that Sweden has a very powerful army. This would have left a relatively intact Sweden in an advantageous position in Northern Europe at the end of the Twilight War.

Would Sweden have sent mercenary groups outside of its own territory with government backing to secure Swedish interests Highly likely. In fact I would be surprised if Sweden didn't actually send larger forces outside of its territory to secure a number of Swedish interests and there are quite a few.

1) Swedes in Finland: About 10% of Finland's population is ethnically Swedish, and over 5% of them still speak Swedish as their first language. They are concentrated in the Aland Islands in the Gulf of Bothnia, and in communities on the western and southern coast of Finland. Some naval and land forces could be sent to secure these areas.

2) The Baltic Approaches: Passing through the Skagerrak and Kattegat is necessary to enter the Baltic Sea from the west. Although Sweden shares control with Denmark and Norway, Denmark geographically dominates the region. With Denmark disorientated due to the war and nuclear attacks, I could see Swedish naval and air forces patrolling this region and some Swedish land forces on the Danish island of Zealand.

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

4) Southern Baltic Coast: As Sweden is still an intact nation, a lot of refugees will want to make their way to Sweden from across the Baltic Sea. So we could seen some Swedish naval and air activity along the southern Baltic coast which includes Denmark, Germany, Poland and the Baltic States. Also Sweden will be taking an interest in who's in charge and of any emerging threats across the Baltic region. So it is likely that it will be here that we will see most Swedish mercenary activity, volunteers with the unofficial approval of their government.


Army

Peacetime Establishment
Army: 44,500 (37,700 conscripts)6 Military Commands (1st, 3rd, 12th, 13th, 15th divisions and 18th (Gotland) Brigade)

War Establishment (725,000 on mobilisation)
Field Army: 350,000

• 6 Armoured Brigade (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 18th, 26th)
• 1 Mechanised Brigade (10th)
• 18 Infantry Brigade (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 17th, 21st, 33rd, 38th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 44th, 45th, 46th, 47th)
• 5 Arctic Infantry (Norrland) Brigade (13th, 19th, 35th, 50th, 51st)
• 9 Artillery Regiment (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th)
• 1 Aviation Battalion (1st)
• 100 independent battalions (armoured, infantry, artillery, air defence)

Local Defence Units: 250,000

• 60 Independent battalions, 400-500 Independent companies

Home Guard: 125,000

• Assorted infantry, artillery, static artillery and air defence units

Equipment
Tanks: 785 (450x Centurion, 335x Strv-103)
Light Tanks: 200 (200x Ikv-91)
APC: 600 (600x Pbv-302)
SP Artillery: 30 (30x 155mm BK-1A)
Artillery: 990 (300x 155mm FH-77, 140x 150mm M-39, 550x 105mm Type-40)
Mortar: 1,500 (500x 120mm, 1,000x 81mm)
ATGW: RB-53 Bantam, RB-56 Bill, TOW
Recoilless Rifle: AT-4, Carl Gustav, Miniman
AD Guns: 714 (600x 40mm, 114x 20mm)
SAM: RBS-70, Redeye, I-Hawk
Aircraft: 19 (17x Bae Bulldog, 2x Do-217)
Helicopter: 79 (20x Bo-105CB-3, 14x Bell-204B, 19x Agusta-Bell 206, 26x Hughes 300)


Air Force

Air Force: 8,000 (5,500 conscripts)

• 4 Air Defence Districts
• 6 Fighter/Ground Attack (FGA) Squadrons
• 11 Fighter Squadrons
• 3 Reconnaissance Squadrons
• 1 Transport Squadron

Equipment
FGA: 99 (81x AJ-37 Viggen, 18x SK-37 Viggen)
Fighter: 218 (139x JA-37 Viggen, 68x J-35 Draken, 11x SK-35C Draken)
Recce: 48 (48x SH/SF-37 Viggen)
ECM: 2 (2x Caravelle ECM/ELINT)
Transport: 30 (8x C-130E/H)
Communication: 22 (3x Beech Super King Air 200, 2x Fairchild Metro III, 16x Saab 105, 1x Saab 34D)
Training: 207 (22x J-32D/E Lansen, 30x Saab 91, 105x Saab 105, 50x B.125 Bulldog)
Helicopter: 32 (10x CH-46, 12x Super Puma, 4x Bo-105CB-3, 6x Agusta-Bell 206)


Navy

Navy: 12,000 (6,300 conscripts and including Coast Defence)

• Submarines: 12 (4x Vastergotland, 3x Nacken, 5x Sjoorman)
• Missile Craft: 31 (1x Goteborg, 2x Stockholm, 16x Hugin, 12x Norrkoping)
• Patrol Craft: 11 (4x PFI, 7x PCI)
• Minelayer: 3 (1x Carlskrona, 2x Alvsborg)
• Minehunter: 23 (3x Arko, 6x Landsort, 14x other)
• Amphibious: 12 (12x LCM)
• Support Ship: 12
• Aircraft: 1 (1x C-212)
• Helicopter: 23 (14x CH-46, 9x Agusta-Bell 206)

Coast Defence: 2,650 (including 1,700 conscripts)

• 5 Coastal Artillery Regiment
• Minelayer: 16 (10x Coastal. 16x Inshore)
• Patrol Craft: 18 (18x Inshore)
• Amphibious: 154 (14x LCM, 80x LCU, 60x LCA)
• Fixed Artillery: 98 (18x 120mm, 6x 105mm, 74x 75mm)
• Anti-Ship Missile: RBS-17, RBS-15KA, RBS-08A, RB-52
• AD Guns: 40mm

Paramilitary

Coast Guard: 600

• Patrol Craft: 72 (2x Fishery Protection, 70x Inshore)
• Aircraft: 3 (1x C-212, 1x Cessna 337, 1x Cessna 402)

I wonder what they would put as priories when war looked to be escalating. you would think that they would put weapons on the market early in the China/Russian war. this would give them time to ramp up production of AT and SAMs, but also APC's . maybe even a wheeled based SP ardy and MRL. what do you all think

[Rainbow Six]

3) Oil: The Swedes need oil like everyone else, and the nearest source is Norway. I think we could see some Swedish forces in Norway (maybe in cooperation with the Norwegians) to secure oil resources and infrastructure in the North Sea and Norwegian deep sea ports.

There's oil (and gas) in the Baltic, mostly in Polish and Russian (Kaliningrad) waters, although it's hard to say how much extraction would have taken place in a T2K timeline, particularly V1 (large scale work on the Polish B3 field didn't start until after the collapse of the Soviet Union, although it was worked prior to that).

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/print/volume-60/issue-8/news/poland-driving-oil-and-gas-projects-across-the-baltic.html

There are also onshore fields in the Baltic States, especially Lithuania, which were already being worked in Soviet times, albeit on a small scale.

http://www.baltic-course.com/archive/eng/index.htm-read=387.htm

I'm not sure how practical exploiting any of those resources would be in T2K but it's a possibility.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As an aside, the "Swedish-K" Carl Gustav M/45 was not quite as uncommon as might initially be thought. They were in service in Algeria, Ireland and Paraguay as well as being used by US and SVN forces during the Vietnam War/Second Indochina War. They were also made under licence by Egypt and Indonesia.

They were actually so common in South Vietnam that my father, a junior officer in the Australian Army in Vietnam at the time, "bought" one from regular US forces (as opposed to special units) - bought in this case meaning he traded it for that most desirable of Australian currency during that conflict... Aussie beer.
He also managed to collect a MAT-49 (not in working condition), AKM and M16A1 (that he used as his personal weapon because his issued weapon was the Browning pistol which he never really liked - probably because he can't shoot pistols worth a damn!) The Swedish-K was used as a backup in case he couldn't scrounge enough 5.56mm as he was only supposed to be issued 9mm ammo.

[RN7]

I wonder what they would put as priories when war looked to be escalating. you would think that they would put weapons on the market early in the China/Russian war. this would give them time to ramp up production of AT and SAMs, but also APC's . maybe even a wheeled based SP ardy and MRL. what do you all think

Many of these weapons made or license built in Sweden may still have been produced during the Twilight War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_of_Sweden

[Rainbow Six]

Bottom line for me is that, as of early 2001, Sweden is in the best position of any nation east of France to emerge as Northern/Central Europe's leading economic and military power. Canon says that, as of mid-to-late 2000, the U.S.S.R. can no longer control its Baltic republics, and Ukraine is in open rebellion. Sweden is well positioned to lend covert support to the Baltics with the aim of bringing them into its sphere of influence. It could also support friendly factions in northern Poland, with like goals. Granted, this posits a Swedish government that is ambitious and not overly risk averse (in the spirit of Gustavus Adolphus).

Personally, I really like the idea of formerly neutral Sweden emerging as a power player c.2001. As a campaign designer, it opens up interesting new possibilities for NPCs, weapons and equipment, and PC options.

I agree with this summary. A thought that crossed my mind this morning is what sort of relationship Sweden and France would have. I can see them meeting and agreeing specific spheres of influence e.g. the French agree to stay out of Scandinavia and the Baltic SSRs while the Swedes give the French a free hand in the Benelux region (and maybe also Spain / Portugal).

But I wonder if there might be some disagreement over whose sphere Poland falls into the French have a historic relationship with Poland and I dont think its a big stretch to presume that the French might want to have some influence with any post War Polish government (if for no other reason than to have a pro France government in place on Germanys eastern border as a potential check against any future German aggression). Im not imagining any large scale conflict, but I think there could be scope for some friction between Sweden and France in Poland for example if both nations were to find out about the existence of the Black Madonna / Reset / any other plot macguffin you want to insert theres the possibility of both sending in retrieval teams and those teams then clashing with each other, either directly or via proxies.