Kraków's Magic Carpet Ride on the Last Train to Clarksville

[puška]

Has anyone tried to transport the Mil M8 from Krak3w via Straczynki's train

Some thoughts:
a) it's a ludicrous idea
b) rotary blades would need to be removed
c) there is a flat wagon in the PKP arsenal that is long enough and width is close enough to jury-rig if it didn't quite fit; wagon is common enough to assume it's in the Konin rail yard
d) loading could be achieved through a DIF skill check via landing the helicopter on the flat wagon
e) the idea is that if they miss the boat, they could theoretically assemble the blades and fly out to the ship
f) difficult to measure the work/reward value ratio

Difficult. Very difficult. But possible.
And what in T2K is easy

[Legbreaker]

Fuel is one of the more obvious problems (besides the massive amount of security around it, and high chance of being blown out of the sky during the initial theft).
That said, I did have a group try and steal it about 25 years ago - the made it to the outskirts of Krakow before being shot down with a minor hit to the tail rotor. From there it was a mad scramble to get as far away as possible, as quickly as possible while avoiding the pursuing forces. It didn't end well with them loosing all their vehicles (An M1A2 and Fox armoured car) and most of their supplies in the process.

[Legbreaker]

Might actually be easier to grab one of the US 8th ID's helicopters from Latvia. Fuel wouldn't be as big of a problem given the area has substantial shale oil reserves (although obtaining it and refining to usable avgas might be somewhat problematic), and the 8th would likely be just as annoyed with the PCs as the Poles unless they somehow managed to convince the commander it was a good idea to strip his division of a large part of it's (currently mostly grounded) air power.

Another really big issue is a helicopter on the back of a train is a very hard thing to hide and extremely easy to ambush. Groups would be coming from behind every rock and bush to get their hands on it, or at least deny it to their enemies.

[puška]

Latvia is a long way to go to pick up a helicopter when one already has a helicopter in central Poland. As well as being the wrong direction when trying to head east to TF34. So I don't think it would be easier, nor cut their travel time and difficulty.

Trains in general are easy to ambush in general, so if I'm someone going to ambush the train, seeing a helicopter being transported isn't going to increase my desire by much. For most marauders, wheeled or tracked vehicles are going to be much more attractive, unless they happen to have a helicopter pilot in their number.

Certainly valid points as to why not to carry a 'copter on a train, but then there's a whole lot of reasons why not to do it. I was merely wondering if anyone had. I seriously doubt our group is going to stop their plans with the train to go hunt a helicopter in Latvia when they've already successfully stolen the one from Krak3w, found a wagon car to carry it, and are (last session) busy making armor plates for the side of the wagon car.

[rcaf_777]

John Paul II International Airport Krak3wBalice is 7 NM from Krakow and Katowice International Airport 48 NM both could serve as a landing area and possibly a fuel location

1283 NM away is the Solidarity Szczecin-Goleni3w Airport which is in US hands however this would require the PC's to refuel twice. Max range is 328 NM or 607 km.

If the a PC's flew in a straight line towards Szczecin they would be forced to land around Poznań

Dresden Germany is also in range but I they risk of being shot down is high.

Anyway just food for thought

[Legbreaker]

Easier to obtain from the Americans than the Poles, not necessarily easier to get back to Germany via train.
Given Konin (the train's starting point) is roughly 250km from Krakow, and the Americans about twice that distance, it shouldn't be too hard to get a helicopter there though, provided there's fuel. It's certainly within range for any of the "available" machines.

[rcaf_777]

This is a German Flat Wagon I think Soviet cars would look like this

[puška]

This is a German Flat Wagon I think Soviet cars would look like this

The wagon car I pictured is one of the most commonly used in Poland for (non-timber) over-sized loads since the 1970s. The wagons you show are far too short to fit a helicopter.

The Soviet cars wouldn't fit on Polish tracks. Even at the height of the Iron Curtain era, Poland didn't adopt the Soviet rail system. Soviet gauge was 1520mm, Poland standard industry was/is 1435mm.


***

I suppose I should have pointed out from the initial post, the PCs aren't stealing the helicopter and flying to meet a train. They stole the helicopter months previous, stashed it somewhere (coincidentally, less than 100k from Konin), continued on their trek through the country, and now, reaching the train, remembered the helicopter, checked on it, and someone suggested (ludicrous idea) carrying the helicopter on the train.

The helicopter, of course, wouldn't fit in nor on any standard wagon/cabin/container (it's far too long). Discovering that Poland freight has a commonly-used longer car, the idea grew into a hazardous possibility. But risk assessment of likely hazard to possible benefit is worthwhile, so further consider is being taken. The PCs might not do it (probably will), but it's certainly worth investigating since flying the copter across Poland/Germany, or north to Latvia, is just as likely to draw fire (with less defenses) as taking Straczynki's train.

I wondered if anyone had done this before.

[swaghauler]

From the standpoint of actually loading the helo onto a flatcar, there is NO reason why you couldn't if it will fit. There are TWO types of heavy duty railcar used in both America and Europe. The first is the 89ft Specialty Flatcar (used for very heavy loads) which has no bulkhead and will allow "roll-on, roll-off" of the load from the front or rear of the Flatcar. The second is the 89ft Heavy Pipe Flatcar with a bulkhead at the front (to prevent cargo from shifting forwards in a rapid deceleration. Both cars can hold a 90ft/27.69m load (with overlap over the coupler) up to 25ft/7.69m high (a standard limit for tunnel and bridge clearance) with a maximum total weight of 239K pounds (259k with the car's weight included). The big issue here would be the cargo width. The maximum width is only 10ft 6 inches (3.23m) in order to clear structures by the tracks (and tunnels).

Just for kicks, here are some other dimensions in Shipping... Specifically Trucking (since I have some experience here);

Older US Trailers (before the 1991 DOT/CDL changes in the US): 96"/2.46m wide by 98"/2.51m high. Lengths vary and include 27ft/8.3m, 36ft/11.07m, 45ft/13.84m, and 48ft/14.76m.

Post '91 DOT/CDL Law Trailers: 27ft/8.3m "PUP" (the ones used in doubles & triples known as "wiggle wagons"), 35ft/10.76m "PUPS", 48ft/14.76m (mostly in Flatbed configuration), and the "newly authorized" (by the '91 bill) 53ft/16.3m "long platform." Almost EVERY post '91 DOT trailer was built to the newly approved (by the '91 DOT bill) Standardized Box Configuration of 102"/2.62m WIDTH with a SQUARE 100"/2.56m INTERIOR DIMENSION (both vertically and horizontally).

The MAXIMUM height for all loads in the US is 13ft 6"/4.15m (although "Oversized Loads" DO occur).

The Maximum Standard Load for Truck AND Cargo is 80,000lbs/36,363kg before an "Oversized Load Requirement" occurs.

[Raellus]

Problem-solving 101

Also, for a skilled mechanic, removing the tail boom is a very doable option. Where there's a will, there's a way, people.

[swaghauler]

Also, for a skilled mechanic, removing the tail boom is a very doable option. Where there's a will, there's a way, people.

I have actually seen Hueys and even Apaches being transported like this on trucks. Apparently, most helicopters are DESIGNED to be "broken down" for transport.

[Tegyrius]

I'll just leave this here for you:

http://tetro.spb.ru/_eng_projects/09_example_air.html

- C.

[puška]

I'll just leave this here for you:

http://tetro.spb.ru/_eng_projects/09_example_air.html

- C.

Love cutaways and diagrams. Awesome.

Granted, these PCs aren't recon Marines, but they have survived so far...

[recon35]

Put the flat car at the back of the train and let the tail hang out over the tracks...

[swaghauler]

Put the flat car at the back of the train and let the tail hang out over the tracks...

That's definitely the easiest way to do it. There COULD BE one complication though. If the overall length of the helo allows the tail to strike an object alongside a BEND in the tracks or a BEND IN A TUNNEL, you could be in trouble. I remember a Norfolk & Southern train accident in West Virginia a few years back that was the result of putting an 89ft Flatcar on a track with a very sharp bend just off of a stanchion bridge. The end of the car struck the stanchion and derailed. Not one of NS's better days.