Kraków's Magic Carpet Ride on the Last Train to Clarksville

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I don't recall seeing many railway tunnels in northern Poland when I was there in 2010 but there were enough cases of tracks passing under a traffic bridge or situations where trees grew close to the line even at bends on the tracks, for the same principle to apply. There were also cases where the tracks ran between tall walls/fences in the outer areas of towns.
I'll stress again, that what I saw was mostly northern Poland, I didn't check any rail lines in the south of the country.

I think you could probably successfully pass through some of these locations with the helo's tail hanging over the back of the rear flatcar but you'd want to be aware of them in advance to ensure you could get the clearance needed. Which would require scouting ahead or the like, all of which would slow the pace of travel for as long as it's necessary to do a recce - and then you might have to cut down trees or shift the helo to move the tail out of the way. In a worst case scenario you would have to remove the tail, so it might be worth doing that right at the start anyway.

[Legbreaker]

Another issue with putting it at the rear is you're sacrificing the chance of properly defending the rear arc of the train. Sure you can put a couple of machineguns and sandbags there, but not a lot more. Having a box car, or even just an empty flatcar at the rear allows building up a decent strong point.
Probably not a huge concern while the train is moving forward, but as we know in 2000 Poland there's a LOT of bridges and tracks destroyed or damaged - the train will be motionless, or even travelling in reverse more often than not while repairs are made, or an alternate route found.

[recon35]

Good points. I agree, that if you have the expertise, removing the tail boom is best. I know in the US, active rail rights of way are generally kept clear of trees, so I just assumed the same was in effect in Europe. These shouldn't have grown to the point of serious hindrance from the start of war to the present. As for rear security, another flat car, followed by third flat with fortifications or box with same should suffice.

[Legbreaker]

Bear in mind though that there are only limited cars available as per the module, and their order, at least to begin with, isn't exactly ideal for most purposes (although adjustable with a little time and effort). Also two of the three flatcars are already loaded with rails and sleepers.

[Adm.Lee]

Put the flat car at the back of the train and let the tail hang out over the tracks...

Put the chopper on a flat car, and have another flat car (an "idler") under the tail, but don't tie it down. The tail can swing loose over the flat car.

[Legbreaker]

Put the chopper on a flat car, and have another flat car (an "idler") under the tail, but don't tie it down. The tail can swing loose over the flat car.

Again, there are only three flat cars available, two of which are loaded with rails and sleepers.

[Olefin]

I have actually seen Hueys and even Apaches being transported like this on trucks. Apparently, most helicopters are DESIGNED to be "broken down" for transport.

Just saw a local crop duster service that uses helicopters that was hauling an old Huey on a trailer this morning in fact on the I-81 near Hagerstown MD - and it cleared the road bridges on the freeway easily

[.45cultist]

I have actually seen Hueys and even Apaches being transported like this on trucks. Apparently, most helicopters are DESIGNED to be "broken down" for transport.

The UH1D that never lost a man in Vietnam is hauled around that way to save fuel and lessen wear. It would be a good prize stateside.

[Adm.Lee]

Again, there are only three flat cars available, two of which are loaded with rails and sleepers.

Surely, one of these won't be stacked so high that the tail boom cannot swing freely above it

[Legbreaker]

I don't see how.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Even if you can get the helo with tailboom intact onto any of the flatcars, there's still going to be the problem of some railway bends in Poland are quite closed in. Either because they have trees growing within a metre or two of the tracks or because they have fences/walls in some areas or they pass under bridges with support pillars within a two metres of the track.
Obviously on the straight there's no problem but the Mi-8 family is about 18 metres long from nose to tail with seven or so of that being the tailboom so corners are something to be concerned with.

[Legbreaker]

Urk!
Trying to find dimensions of Polish rolling stock is soooooo much fun!
Don't suppose we could have one of our Polish members contact the PKP and get a list direct from the source of what they have, what would have been available in the 1995-1997 period, and their sizes
That would be a LOT easier than trying to get the info online...

[.45cultist]

Urk!
Trying to find dimensions of Polish rolling stock is soooooo much fun!
Don't suppose we could have one of our Polish members contact the PKP and get a list direct from the source of what they have, what would have been available in the 1995-1997 period, and their sizes
That would be a LOT easier than trying to get the info online...

Didn't "Going Home" say they were close or the same as German rail stock

[Legbreaker]

No, just the same gauge.
A quick search online shows that most countries use Standard Gauge of 1,435mm.
Finding information on the rolling stock used by the PKP (Polish State Railway) is...difficult. This could well be because there's many, many different types in use and no particular "standard" size.
I did find though that flat cars throughout the world (mainly US sources of info though) are approximately 12-16 metres bumper to bumper (so a little less actual cargo space), some shorter, a (very) few longer.

[puška]

There isn't as wide of a variance in PKP Cargo as some countries might have. I lived in Krak3w for 5-6 years in late/early 90s/00s, and a friend was a (don't remember the Polish term) railyard stevedore for PKPCargo. That's where the suggestion of the longest freight wagon (the german model i pictured above). Most wagons in the 90s are going to be hodge-podge of Polish-made with a LOT from Germany, some from Hungary, and still a few more of Czechoslovakian make.

Now that I've played T2K, I do wish I could go back and visually mark some places around the city and countryside for details within the game. Like one module that states you can see the river from a certain overlook and, as I remember and have photos from, you simply cannot see the river from there.

Legbreaker's estimate of common lengths is correct, but (I would make the educated guess based on types of freight being shipped & origin/destination) southern Polish lines are going to be using the long cars more often than northern lines. In Poland circa the canon years, there's is little chance the railyard outside Konin would not have a long freight wagon.

In our playing, canon cannot be canon when it is written that way by guys who just didn't have complete information when they wrote it. Limiting possible options to only the cars described as being the only available for PCs during the game is more ludicrous than disassembling a helicopter to transport it via a freight train wagon.


[For contacting PKP, there's no inherent need for an email to be in Polish; unlike German and Russian, Polish folks I've known love opportunities to speak or write in English.]
[I've not yet read the Colo Springs thread... the other half of our household was born and grew up there; her father was a hardware engineer for the Mountain '61-'74.]