Opinions Please - Are Assault Rifles Perfected?

[copeab]

I think the major issue that's affecting assault rifle efficacy is the intermediate cartridge/round. I don't think the tech. will be "perfect" until this is adequately addressed.

The problem is that there is no "perfect" rifle/round combination. What is ideal for the open spaces of Afghanistan is not ideal for the forests of Europe or room clearing in a highrise building.

Given that, the current rifle/round combinations are reasonable compromises.

[kalos72]

Being able to change uppers...and therefore change calibers for your task would be great. Using the same physical sized magazine, just with different calibers would be nice.

Think 5.56 and .458 SOCOM style philosophy....

[CDAT]

I think the major issue that's affecting assault rifle efficacy is the intermediate cartridge/round. I don't think the tech. will be "perfect" until this is adequately addressed.

...

But then it is no longer an Assault Rifle, you are moving back into the Battle Rifle realm.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I sincerely believe that the concept of Battle Rifle and Assault Rifle are flawed and do not actually contribute to the understanding of what they are & how they are used.

The terms are too arbitrary, for instance, according to prevailing thought, these two rifles are Battle Rifles: -
.303 bolt-action SMLE
7.62x51mm select-fire G3

The 5.56mm HK33 is classed as "Assault" Rifle by virtue of it's ammo even thought it is identical in form and function to the G3.
The G3 is lumped together with the SMLE even though they share almost nothing in common regarding design, design philosophy, function and usage.

Given that we have certain designs in several calibres that make the one design available as both battle and assault rifle and we also have what are basically SMGs that fire 5.56mm (commonly called Micro Assault Rifles rather than SMG), I think part of the problem with deciding if "assault" rifles are perfected, is how they are defined.

[CDAT]

I sincerely believe that the concept of Battle Rifle and Assault Rifle are flawed and do not actually contribute to the understanding of what they are & how they are used.

The terms are too arbitrary, for instance, according to prevailing thought, these two rifles are Battle Rifles: -
.303 bolt-action SMLE
7.62x51mm select-fire G3

The 5.56mm HK33 is classed as "Assault" Rifle by virtue of it's ammo even thought it is identical in form and function to the G3.
The G3 is lumped together with the SMLE even though they share almost nothing in common regarding design, design philosophy, function and usage.

Given that we have certain designs in several calibres that make the one design available as both battle and assault rifle and we also have what are basically SMGs that fire 5.56mm (commonly called Micro Assault Rifles rather than SMG), I think part of the problem with deciding if "assault" rifles are perfected, is how they are defined.

At least what I was taught the G3 and the SMLE are not in the same class. Just becasue it is used in battle does not make it a battle rifle. One is a bolt action rifle the other is a Battle Rifle. To be a battle rifle it has to be selective fire using a full power cartridge, so a bolt action is not going to fall under that. And the Assault rifle has to be the same as a battle rifle but it uses an intermediate cartridge.

As for having the same designs in several calibers you can have in the same basic design a SMG (uses pistol cartridges), Assault Rifle, and Battle Rifles. But the different cartridges and what goes with it does make a very big difference, at least I think so.

[copeab]

The 5.56mm HK33 is classed as "Assault" Rifle by virtue of it's ammo even thought it is identical in form and function to the G3.

One uses a full-sized round, the other an intermediate round. This is by far the biggest difference and is what matters.

whatThe G3 is lumped together with the SMLE even though they share almost nothing in common regarding design, design philosophy, function and usage.

Only you are lumping them together. The SMLE is an obsolete service rifle (all bolt-action rifles are obsolete as infantryman's weapons) while even the G3 and FAL are only obsolescent.
.

[copeab]

At least what I was taught the G3 and the SMLE are not in the same class. Just becasue it is used in battle does not make it a battle rifle. One is a bolt action rifle the other is a Battle Rifle. To be a battle rifle it has to be selective fire using a full power cartridge, so a bolt action is not going to fall under that. And the Assault rifle has to be the same as a battle rifle but it uses an intermediate cartridge.

This is very close to what I have heard, as well.

As for having the same designs in several calibers you can have in the same basic design a SMG (uses pistol cartridges), Assault Rifle, and Battle Rifles. But the different cartridges and what goes with it does make a very big difference, at least I think so.

The SMG is arguably becoming obsolete, with very short-barreled assault rifles avalable.

[CDAT]

...

The SMG is arguably becoming obsolete, with very short-barreled assault rifles avalable.

Very true, was just saying that just because the platform is more or less the same but with a different caliber does not make it the same thing, the caliber makes a huge difference (as in the actual class of the weapon).

[copeab]

Very true, was just saying that just because the platform is more or less the same but with a different caliber does not make it the same thing, the caliber makes a huge difference (as in the actual class of the weapon).

True. The only real advantage of a SMG over a short assault rifle is that a fired round is less likely to go through multiple walls This really makes to more of a police weapon these days than a military weapon, though there are certain specific, limited military applications for a SMG.

[.45cultist]

Caseless ammo has bigger problems.

(1) Fragile: dropping a caseless round (even in a magazine) can cause the propellant to crack or completely break, leading to a malfunction.

(2) Malfunctions: to clear a malfunction on the G11 you essentially had to field strip the gun. For regular cased ammo, operating the bolt manually (to eject the unfired round and chamber a fresh round) is usually sufficient.

(3) Overheating: Brass cases absorb heat from the propellant exploding and are then ejected out of the gun. Caseless rounds don have this to get rid of some of the heat from firing and will overheat much faster.

No, caseless ammo is really a dead end.

(Talking about small arms here, not the ammo for larger cannons and howitzers)

Got to hold a 4.7MM caseless. You need a heat and rough handling resistant propellant. Also for long term storage it must be sealed. But I thought it was "neat". Also, it seems that one must "give and take" on desired features for now in regards to the weapons them selves.

[Legbreaker]

Got to hold a 4.7MM caseless. You need a heat and rough handling resistant propellant. Also for long term storage it must be sealed. But I thought it was "neat". Also, it seems that one must "give and take" on desired features for now in regards to the weapons them selves.

Wasn't that round supposed to come in sealed 10 round packs and only opened when the magazine was being loaded After those brief moments in the sun, the rounds are again protected this time by the magazine body.
Seems they had the potential fragility of the round fairly well covered.

[.45cultist]

Wasn't that round supposed to come in sealed 10 round packs and only opened when the magazine was being loaded After those brief moments in the sun, the rounds are again protected this time by the magazine body.
Seems they had the potential fragility of the round fairly well covered.

In the cartridge collector world, one sees more singles, a bag of those would cost quite a bit. If I'd been able to see a bag, I would tell you more.

[copeab]

Wasn't that round supposed to come in sealed 10 round packs and only opened when the magazine was being loaded After those brief moments in the sun, the rounds are again protected this time by the magazine body.
Seems they had the potential fragility of the round fairly well covered.

Put a carton of eggs in a steel box, then drop the steel box from 1.5m.I

If any egg cracks, your G11 has just malfunctioned.

[Legbreaker]

They aren't exactly eggs though are they. Anything that fragile wouldn't have even cycled and certainly wouldn't have made it into a service rifle like the G11.
Apples and oranges...

[.45cultist]

They aren't exactly eggs though are they. Anything that fragile wouldn't have even cycled and certainly wouldn't have made it into a service rifle like the G11.
Apples and oranges...

Since I don't know how RDX feels, it might have been coated.