Storing Food in T2K

[Slappy]

This can also be a useful reason for trade. Salt can only be mined in limited areas inland and produced on the coast. Salt trading would be one of the major commercial enterprises in T2k. I haven't thought about it that much, but it seems there might be the highest demand in the fall as communities prepare for the winter and 'salt away' food. Why not kill that extra hog in October and salt it for eating later instead of feeding it all winter

There are some spectacular salt mines southeast of Krakow by the way.

[Littlearmies]

Oh, that's easy! It's from Star Wars Episode 6...

Actually its from the Romans - they said that a guy who was in love (or lust) was "salted up" ("salax" in Latin) and salacious stems from salax. I find stuff like that fascinating so I'm really enjoying the book.

In the UK Cheshire is the centre of salt mining (actually it's often that you drill down and take the brine from the well - it's why salt drilling was the precursor technology for the oil industry, that and the fact that salt domes are an indicator for oil - you then reduce the brine to below 24% salt solution at which time salt crystals begin to precipitate). In the US it used to be Onondaga in upstate NY, Kanawha in the South.

Using evaporation in large tanks is a slower technology but if you have an area with a good climate (south end of San Francisco Bay) it's quite possible. Otherwise you need to build some basic technology, in a coastal area with fuel and transport links.

My view of the Twilight World is that, blessed with the knowledge of how to do things but not the equipment (or energy) to do them on a modern large scale, we would revert to 18th and 19th Century methods of production at least at first.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Theres a pretty big salt mine just outside Belfast as well;

http://www.irishsaltmining.com/home.htm

Although with this being designed to produce rocksalt for de icing work I would imagine you'd need to refine it for use in food.

[kalos72]

A good thread I would like to bump with a question...

How would you actually store it Cans wont be an option unless you can make new ones. Glass jars Clay pots

Considering most idiots would discard things like a good mason jar or a tin can...what would you do

How about for military forces where mobility is a concern

[simonmark6]

Large scale storage: Barrels, relatively easy to make and useful for a number of purposes.
Small scale storage/vital stores: Stoneware jars are possible but you could make some tin or steel cans, it wouldn't be impossible using low tech but hygene standards might be a problem.

[kalos72]

Does anyone have any numbers on barrels both storage and production by chance Maybe some HARN materials that would help

[simonmark6]

Cooperage is a specialised skill and lots of wooden barrels might be a big ask now I think of it. However, big metal barrels might be achievable.

Rolling fairly large and thin bits of recycled iron or tin would be fairly simple. Electro tinplate this and weld it shut. Then weld the botton shust with a tinplated disk and then fill the can. Weld the top shut and you should have a reasonable product. It's large scale and manpower intensive but should be achievable, the metal is easily available, then you need a way of making a salt solution of the tin and a generator.

Again, this should be achievable with enough people and resources. In smaller societies, reusing cans migt be a possibility.

[GDWFan]

Lots of good ideas have already been mentioned here but Ill try to add a few.

Whole Grains would be very valuable food sources. Raw Wheat, Corn, Soy, Rice. These can be milled crushed and ground into many useful products.
They are stored in bags, buckets, garbage cans, rubbermaid containers, lots of household plastic containers would take on new value.

Nitrogeon sealed grains are the longest lasting that I know of, suck the air out of the container and add inert gas to create an oxygen free container.

Non-Hybrid Seeds would also hold great value to food in general for a settlement. These seeds are popular with the survivalists out there and could possibly be found

I think you will see alot of coolers being used to store foods, knowledge of brewing beers and wines and distilling of grain alcohols for a drink that can be stored and keeps for long periods. So I would think recycling and reclaimation of old glass beer and soda bottles could be seen.

I also think that rabbit, squirrel and other small rodents would be cooped and breed for food. If chickens could be bred in my opinion Eggs would be one of humanities saviors, as much protien as a cut of meat and they take around a day or two to develop. If eggs could be produced in any large scale they could provide alot of the sorely missed vitamins of a meat based diet. They can be boiled and kept for sometime, the chinese bury them in ash and eat the month aged egg known as 100 year old eggs and you can pickle them for even longer keeping.

In addition to drying, salting, jellying, smoking and dehydrating these could give you a few options

[kato13]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

[jester]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

You can use hot water and bleach to sterilize plastic bottles.

[WallShadow]

This can also be a useful reason for trade. Salt can only be mined in limited areas inland and produced on the coast. Salt trading would be one of the major commercial enterprises in T2k.
<SNIP>
There are some spectacular salt mines southeast of Krakow by the way.

There are several major salt mines in the US, one in Hutchinson KS and another _under_ Lake Erie accessed through a portal in Cleveland OH.Many have already followed the Twilight canon from Poland's salt mines in that sections of them are reserved for storage or even manufacturing. IIRC the Hutchinson Mine had machine tools and industrial equipment stored there as a hedge against nuclear war. Now where have we heard something like that before

[Raellus]

Salt is Money

There's an amazing salt mine near Krakow (I can't remember if it's detailed in the FCoK module) that's on UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites.

http://www.wieliczka-saltmine.com/

I passed up an opportunity to go there in order to spend more time in Krakow itself. I can't decide if I regret that decision or not.

Salt's going to be extremely important in the T2KU because of its usefulness in preserving food. I can see it becoming like a form of currency. It has been used as such in the past.

[dragoon500ly]

I always imagined plastic 2 liter bottles being repurposed for food storage. They are plentiful, airtight and bug resistant.

Hmmmm I may have to see if you can boil their contents (for sterilization) without destroying them. If not they can be used for honey, grain, salt, etc.

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

[Slappy]

Confit is a simple process perfected by the Basques that will allow meat to last for months in a cool place with far less salt needed than traditional curing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confit

It is also delicious, probably a rarity in post 2K cuisine.

[swaghauler]

Those old 2 liter plastic soda bottles would have more use as ad hoc water purifiers, wash thoroughly, filter as much matter out of the water as possible, Camp and place the bottle on a rock/concrete surface in direct sunlight. Over the course of 4-6 hours the water temperature can reach near boiling, killing any germs and leaving the upper two thirds of the water, relatively pure. Works really well in the summer.

The best bottles to use if you have to "boil" using a plastic bottle are Gatorade G2 bottles. They are tough enough to use as regular water bottles and won't melt even if you hang them only 6" above your fire. They are some of the thickest plastic bottles made today.

The fastest method of purification without boiling would be to use either Tincture of Iodine or ordinary household Bleach. The Iodine will not kill everything and won't remove Radiological or Chemical (both Industrial and Chemical Weapon residue) contamination. Chlorine will kill almost all pathogens but not Radiological or Chemical contamination as well. Chlorine is definitely the better of the two purifiers. Ironically, BOTH chemicals use a ratio of 2 drops per quart of water. They both require 30 minutes to purify the water as well.
To Purify This Much Water................... This Many Drops of Purifier:
1 Quart of Water.................................... 2 Drops of Purifier
1 Gallon of Water .................................. 8 Drops or 1/8 Teaspoon
5 Gallons of Water ................................. 32 Drops or 1/2 Teaspoon
10 Gallons of Water ................................ 64 Drops or 1 Teaspoon
55 Gallons of Water ................................ 352 Drops or 5 & 1/2 Teaspoons

THESE DROPS MUST BE METERED PRECISELY! Both agents are poisonous to humans in too large a dosage. The water should also be filtered through a cloth to remove particulates as these will slow down the chemical reaction. You can have 4 parts per million of Chlorine. Iodine's safe levels vary from person to person (many people are allergic to Iodine).