Changes in Oil Movement pre TDM

[RN7]

On the other hand, it's not that hard to churn out millions of rounds of 5.45, 7.62S and 7.62L in short order. Those three calibres have been available in bulk to civilians for decades, much of it produced outside the Pact aligned countries and China.

But its the heavier tank and artillery rounds that the PLA need

[Legbreaker]

Which is where the M60s, etc would come in. I just cannot buy the US sending M1s to China.

[Olefin]

Which is where the M60s, etc would come in. I just cannot buy the US sending M1s to China.

I completely agree with Leg on this one - especially considering that fact that you have US units that were still equipped with the M60's - that right there says that there arent excess M1 tanks to send - i.e. the US needs all that they have just to equip their own forces

[kato13]

Could Taiwan get M-1s It is under discussion now so it could be a possibility.

I can't believe Taiwan is not mentioned in either the V1 rules or the BYB. I thought I recalled Mainland China making peace with Taiwan after the first nukes were used (they did not need another front) but that might have been my own idea.

[shrike6]

NATO arms shipments to China would face one major problem. The Chinese used the same calibre small arms ammunition and tank and artillery rounds as the Soviets. NATO calibre ammunition is not compatible with Soviet ammunition. So NATO would have to reequip the PLA with very large quantities of NATO weapons.

You're not totally right on this. The Chinese did have license to produce a copy of the 105mm L/7 Tank Gun and used it on their Type 79 and Type 88 MBTs. Which makes the case for M60 and M48A5s that much stronger. since 105mm ammo is already in their supply chain.

[Legbreaker]

Could Taiwan get M-1s It is under discussion now so it could be a possibility.

In 1995-96 with war looming Not likely.
Also Taiwan don't really need them in the T2K timeline - they've got this nice big "moat" around them and their only real enemy in the region is somewhat "distracted" by those pesky Ruskies!

[Olefin]

I could see Taiwan getting tanks in one scenario - i.e. they are on the way to China and the nukes hit (both China and South Korea) and the convoy or ships with them literally decides safest place in a storm is Taiwan and they never go further - or Taiwan after the strikes says sure US we will send you stuff for Korea but we want something in exchange (i.e. you need food, ammo, etc. but we get to keep the tanks in those ships that took shelter in our ports)

[RN7]

You're not totally right on this. The Chinese did have license to produce a copy of the 105mm L/7 Tank Gun and used it on their Type 79 and Type 88 MBTs. Which makes the case for M60 and M48A5s that much stronger. since 105mm ammo is already in their supply chain.

The Type 79 and Type 88 tanks were armed with Chinese licence procured variants of the British designed L7 105mm tank gun. China built around 100 Type 79 and 500 Type 88A/B tanks that were mainly used by Chinese forces rather than exported. After 1995 Chinese tank production switched over to the Type 88C or Type 96 tank armed with a copy of the Soviet 125mm gun.

So out of a tank fleet of over 8,000 units in the mid-1990's about 600 at most can use NATO ammunition, and after the Soviets invade in 1995 that is a rapidly dwindling number of tanks. Replacement tanks could of course be built but the factory that produced the Type 79 and Type 88 tanks and many other Chinese vehicles was 617 Institute, Inner Mongolia No. 1 Machinery Plant at Baotou in Inner Mongolia in Northern China, and it lay right in the path of invading Soviet forces.

Regarding supplying China with surplus M48 and M60 tanks, that is another argument.

[RN7]

Which is where the M60s, etc would come in. I just cannot buy the US sending M1s to China.

Surplus M60 and M48's could be supplied to China but likely from US National Guard units that had their tanks replaced with M1's. Maybe some older tanks from Western Europe as well. But I don't think we are talking about huge numbers, and tank deliveries will stop after the West Germans cross the Inter-German border in October 1996.

[RN7]

Could Taiwan get M-1s It is under discussion now so it could be a possibility.

I can't believe Taiwan is not mentioned in either the V1 rules or the BYB. I thought I recalled Mainland China making peace with Taiwan after the first nukes were used (they did not need another front) but that might have been my own idea.

I don't think the US would be supplying anyone with M1's as they want them for their own forces. But other tanks certainly.

[Olefin]

I know that China does have another armored vehicles manufacturer - but dont think they can make tanks - Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing - they are more wheeled vehicle manufacturers

As for Batou - I can see that factory not being in the path of the initial drive into China - it looked more like they were going for Manchuria and a direct path to Beijing - if they didnt go for it right off the bat you could see the Chinese putting everything they had to defend it - however it definitely would have been on the list of nuke sites for sure in 1997 - i.e. if the Soviets didnt take it out already you can count on it being a memory by the end of August 97