Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[therantingsavant]

Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Cavalry rules in the Twilight World

This post is the distillation of a lot of research from this forum combined with an analysis of the RAW from the T2k v2.2 corebook but in particular the threads: Cavalry in Twilight 2000, Cavalry in T2K and the excellent: Cavalry and Bicycles 2.2.2 PDF

Feedback and discussion welcome!

[Vespers War]

A criticism of the rules rather than the post - the mule is listed with an 80 kg load, but per the World War I era handbook for Quartermasters, a mule's typical load was 250 pounds, or ~113 kilos. The J-118 Escort Wagon was a 2-mule wagon that had a typical load of 3000 pounds (1360 kg), and on flat-and-level road could carry 5000 pounds (2260 kg). For horses, the US Cavalry Manual of Horse Management recommended loads be limited to 20% of a horse's weight, so that 350 kg horse would have a load of 70 kg (or, conversely, the 120 kg load would belong to a 600 kg horse). Some sources suggest that can go up to 30% of body weight, but that puts more stress on the horse according to veterinary studies.

One alternative not discussed in the rules is the use of dogs as pack animals. They can carry half their body weight and pull a cart or sled with double their body weight.

While they likely wouldn't be built until years into the post-war collapse, Conestogas with 4-7 horses could haul 5 tons over rather terrible roads, though usually 1 or 2 tons were given over to fodder for the horses (giving about 12-42 days of range from the absolute minimum of 1 ton for 7 horses up to the maximum of 2 tons for 4 horses).

The overland travel being the same makes sense to me. Strategically, cavalry units were often slower than infantry because of the time needed to care for the animals and their walking speed not being significantly faster. Cavalry is effective because of their tactical speed.

On a battlefield with any sort of automatic weapons, acting as dragoons makes the most sense, as a horse is a large target and a prone human is much smaller.

For the height difference, I'd use the Punch hit location table from James Langham's Unarmed Combat, and say that a mounted attacker hitting an infantry defender rolls 1d4 for hit location, while the infantry attacker hitting a mounted defender rolls 1d8+2 (and flips a coin for which arm if it comes up as arm).

[therantingsavant]

Thanks Vespers for the feedback and suggestions.

The mule's load always seemed off to me and I think it should be swapped with that of the horse but was writing RAW (rules as written) - I may add an edit in suggesting this "House Rule" quoting you however as it makes a lot of sense. (Edit: this has been inserted as a "sidebar" attributed to Vespers)

Hadn't thought of dogs actually, probably a whole separate post/article on the use of trained animals would be warranted if it's not been done before.

As for Conestogas, I'd always assumed the cart and wagon were the basic ones - heavier capacity rail-car wagons of 5 tons are briefly mentioned in Going Home which would not be dissimilar except the low friction of the rails allows less horses. I'd wonder if oxen would be more appropriate for the heavier wagons however. Maybe it needs a vehicle card actually.

Your overland travel rationale makes sense - I just found it odd as most systems have faster overland travel for mounted groups (although it's usually based on higher movement rate IIRC). Wayne has pointed out that there's a hit modifier for fast speed that a galloping rider can take advantage of so the tactical speed is really what makes the difference, even if dismounting is needed to be effective with automatic weapons. I still think there should be a benefit for melee combat while mounted or charging with a lance ruling but it's not that common a scenario to be fair. I will have to check out Jame's rules but that simplification makes sense based on what I thought.

I'll try and edit in some of these suggestions I think...

[Vespers War]

Thanks Vespers for the feedback and suggestions.

The mule's load always seemed off to me and I think it should be swapped with that of the horse but was writing RAW (rules as written) - I may add an edit in suggesting this "House Rule" quoting you however as it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, I saw that you were working off the data cards, which was why I made sure to caveat it as a criticism of the rules, not the article.

Hadn't thought of dogs actually, probably a whole separate post/article on the use of trained animals would be warranted if it's not been done before.

I'm not aware of any, and it would be a useful thing. I thought of it because I've talked with a couple Iditarod mushers about their experiences, and a Canadian exhibit on mail sleds mentioned the load limits for pack dogs.

As for Conestogas, I'd always assumed the cart and wagon were the basic ones - heavier capacity rail-car wagons of 5 tons are briefly mentioned in Going Home which would not be dissimilar except the low friction of the rails allows less horses. I'd wonder if oxen would be more appropriate for the heavier wagons however. Maybe it needs a vehicle card actually.

I agree that the existing carts are more similar to regular farm carts or the Escort Wagon. I just figure someone in PA would try to bring Conestogas back at some point. I also had the information for them since the Army Transportation Museum has one as an example of Revolutionary War transport.

Oxen will pull around their own body weight at a speed of roughly 2 miles per hour for about 5 hours per day. A draft horse pulls basically the same amount, but for up to 8 hours, and is slightly faster at around 3 miles per hour. So an ox cart will cover about 10 miles per day in one period of travel, while a horse cart will be around 24 miles per day in two periods of travel. However, the horses are less sturdy and require more care, and most of them will be slightly smaller than an ox (although Shires are right up there with cattle in size).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

@ therantingsavant
Are you considering looking into other pack animals Depending on the location there could be camels, llamas, alpacas, goats and so on (and even elephants). I know yak and water buffalo have been used as pack animals but they're probably similar enough to oxen for the sake of the rules.

As for draft animals, dogs have been mentioned but there could also be camels, goats and apparently llamas have also been used as harness animals.

Other than that, I've nothing to actually contribute to the discussion but just wanted to say thanks to both of you (savant & Vespers) for all the great information.

[Olefin]

Very much in line with the 1st Kenyan Mounted Cavalry Regiment that is in my East Africa Kenya source book - i.e. they fight as dragoons using the horses for transportation and then dismount and fight as infantry - i.e

Tactics

The Regiment fights as dragoons, using the horses for transport but not taking them into battle if it can be helped. On at least three occasions, due to ambushes, they have been forced to fight from horseback, with serious losses in horses and men each time. When in combat, one man from each six is tasked to handle the horses while the rest deploy to fight.

Usually the Regiment deploys without the heavy weapons squadron for patrols, only using that for missions where the heavier firepower will be needed, as the caissons slow them down and have broken down in rough terrain before.

[therantingsavant]

@Cynic - I haven't looked at other staff animals as was concentrating on the Polish setting but yes take and water buffalo are similar enough to oxen when I've researched them for other RPGs sure.

Camels are very different.

Still have to think about hounds both as companion animals and also for pack purposes, not so sure about sleds.

Need to check the Kenyan sourcebook. [emoji848]

Thanks for the feedback.


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[Vespers War]

Sleds are mentioned in Bear's Den, but either there weren't rules or I didn't like them, because I don't have any notes about the rules.

[Olefin]

@Cynic - I haven't looked at other staff animals as was concentrating on the Polish setting but yes take and water buffalo are similar enough to oxen when I've researched them for other RPGs sure.

Camels are very different.

Still have to think about hounds both as companion animals and also for pack purposes, not so sure about sleds.

Need to check the Kenyan sourcebook. [emoji848]

Thanks for the feedback.


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Here you go - from the sourcebook that was published two years ago

1st Kenyan Mounted Cavalry Regiment - Lodwar
. Manpower: 210 men
. Artillery: two 81mm mortars

The Regiment was organized in 1998, starting with a cadre of fifty horsemen and two hundred horses that had been used previously for horse safari tours, organized by a retired veteran of the Household Mounted Cavalry Regiment of the British Army who immigrated to Kenya in 1988 after twenty years service. Its personnel are all trained horsemen and women, drawn mostly from the white population of Kenya who owned most of the horses in the country pre-war.

The regiment consists of a headquarters squadron, three cavalry squadrons, and a horse drawn heavy weapons squadron. It is modeled on the British Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment, with each cavalry squadron, at full strength, consisting of two divisions, each of one officer and twenty four enlisted personnel, while the headquarters squadron consists of only one division. In addition, it is supported by a training squadron of one officer and thirty six enlisted men.

The HQ and Cavalry squadrons of the Regiment are armed with 9mm Browning pistols and G3 rifles, while the heavy weapons squadron is armed with the Sterling MkIV instead of the G3. In addition, each cavalry division has a Bren light machine gun (instead of the G3) and two M79 grenade launchers. The heavy weapons squadron has two M2HB machine guns, two 81mm mortars and two RPG-7 launchers with three missiles each. The Regiment fights as dragoons, using the horses for transport only.

[therantingsavant]

Sleds are mentioned in Bear's Den, but either there weren't rules or I didn't like them, because I don't have any notes about the rules.

Page 32 yes - I'll post the screenshot when I get a chance to edit this post from my laptop but essentially - 7 dogs, on driver + 90kg load and 20km/he.

[therantingsavant]

Thanks Olefin - that makes sense. Presumably the mortars and MGs are packed on the horses rather than drawn on caissons / limbers like large bore artillery


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[therantingsavant]

Thanks Olefin - that makes sense. Presumably the mortars and MGs are packed on the horses rather than drawn on caissons / limbers like large bore artillery


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[Olefin]

The heavy weapons squadron has caissons/wagons for the mortars and M2HB machine guns. They can also carry them on horses if need be but with less ammo for the guns and the mortars if they do so, so you get a trade off of more maneuverability for less ammo if you get into a major fight.

[therantingsavant]

Ok that tradeoff makes sense I was thinking of the mobility aspect for cantonment based units with capacity for storage - particularly the Soviet 96th Cavalry Division based out of Torun which is part of some of the "North of Kalisz / Lower Vistula" gazetteer material I'm working on. I was picturing highly mobile scouts that could deploy the occasional heavy weapon as dragoons.

But I can see that units travelling overland to a destination eg the remnants of the 89th Cavalry Division returning to their homeland would find caissons and limbers an advantage for the extra ammo capacity and they'd need carts/wagons for the extra feed as well if constantly on the move.





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[therantingsavant]

Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Double post