OT Things are getting hairy in the Middle East

[RN7]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49721301

A Twilight 2000 RDF scenario or variant perhaps

[Raellus]

IIRC, and it's been a while since I last read it, Red Storm Rising's WWIII started after a terrorist attack on a Soviet Oil Refinery.

[cawest]

IIRC, and it's been a while since I last read it, Red Storm Rising's WWIII started after a terrorist attack on a Soviet Oil Refinery.

I started listening to it on youtube this morning. because of the news.

[Heffe3737]

Looking at the site itself, combined with pictures of the damage, it looks like the attack which hit the four tanks (pictures in article), came from the west.

Definitely concerning.

[Raellus]

The Future of Warfare is Here: Drone Swarm Attacks

Looking at the site itself, combined with pictures of the damage, it looks like the attack which hit the four tanks (pictures in article), came from the west.

Definitely concerning.

As the author of this defense blog explains, the direction the attack came from doesn't necessarily indicate the perpetrator.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29874/the-strike-on-saudi-oil-facilities-was-unprecedented-and-it-underscores-far-greater-issues

[Heffe3737]

Oh of course. I simply meant that the holes in the tanks appear to be on the western side, not that the drones came in from the west or anything. I would note that the oil fields that were also attacked were southwest of the refinery, but that's what, 150km away Without more information on the drones used, who knows where they were likely being operated from (or if they were in fact drones at all, has that even been confirmed yet).

In any case, it's concerning because it seems the cold war between the Kingdom and Iran is heating up. To clarify, I'm not saying that Iran caused the attack, but despite denying it they are strongly suspected to support the Houthis, and Iran and the Kingdom have long been known to take proxy action against one another.

[Olefin]

Pompeo is saying its an Iranian attack and an act of war. So looks like we may get to see some nice F-14 versus F-15 dogfights over the Gulf soon and finally get to settle who is the better dogfighter

[Legbreaker]

Worth a look I think...

https://bombardsbodylanguage.com/2019/09/16/body-language-iran-drone-strikes-in-saudi-arabia/lm=814598253deee8ff4e4ace0186646a16&ls1=600a639f2b01b78380e7a0bf44de2b68931fc8b3&ls2=b1bd8eb2d72b5e906b554c02b298f5edaee07d6b2fd3050440fab128d028b1eb

[JHart]

Pompeo is saying its an Iranian attack and an act of war. So looks like we may get to see some nice F-14 versus F-15 dogfights over the Gulf soon and finally get to settle who is the better dogfighter

An F-15 has never been lost in air to air combat. Unfortunately the Tomcat can't say the same.

[Raellus]

Oh of course. I simply meant that the holes in the tanks appear to be on the western side, not that the drones came in from the west or anything. I would note that the oil fields that were also attacked were southwest of the refinery, but that's what, 150km away Without more information on the drones used, who knows where they were likely being operated from (or if they were in fact drones at all, has that even been confirmed yet).

In any case, it's concerning because it seems the cold war between the Kingdom and Iran is heating up. To clarify, I'm not saying that Iran caused the attack, but despite denying it they are strongly suspected to support the Houthis, and Iran and the Kingdom have long been known to take proxy action against one another.

I definitely think that Iran had at least something to do with it. The Houthis have proven to be pretty resourceful, but I haven't seen anything indicating that they are capable of carrying out an attack this complex, this precise, completely on their own. At the very least, they surely had substantial material assistance from the Iranians (i.e. Iran provided the attack drones). Even if the Houthis themselves launched the drones, I reckon that at least a few Iranian "advisers" were on hand to "observe" the operation (wink-wink).

[Raellus]

Pompeo is saying its an Iranian attack and an act of war. So looks like we may get to see some nice F-14 versus F-15 dogfights over the Gulf soon and finally get to settle who is the better dogfighter

The last thing the U.S.A. needs right now is to get directly involved in yet another proxy war in the Middle East.

American defense contractors must be creaming their jockeys right now, but enough is enough. We've provided the Saudis with billions of dollars worth of subsidized, high tech American-made weaponry. Let them fight their own battles.

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[Olefin]

Raellus - not talking about American planes - the Saudis fly the F-15 and the F-15E as wel.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hey Olefin, I also think the question is interesting, F-14 or F-15
However I don't think it would be a fair test of the aircraft because I think in this case, it will come down to who has the better pilots & doctrine, the Saudis or the Iranians.

[Raellus]

Nothing the Saudis have done militarily in the last three decades has impressed me much. They can't defeat rebels in the region's poorest country and they couldn't stop said from temporarily knocking out half of the world's oil production.

The Iranians, on the other hand, have been punking the Saudis at every turn and, although it's been a while, the Iranians have operational experience at air warfare. I'm not saying predicting an Iranian victory, but I think that they'd give the vastly better equipped Saudis a run for their [oil] money in any aerial clash over the Gulf, perhaps even getting the better of them.

[Heffe3737]

Nothing the Saudis have done militarily in the last three decades has impressed me much. They can't defeat rebels in the region's poorest country and they couldn't stop said from temporarily knocking out half of the world's oil production.

The Iranians, on the other hand, have been punking the Saudis at every turn and, although it's been a while, the Iranians have operational experience at air warfare. I'm not saying predicting an Iranian victory, but I think that they'd give the vastly better equipped Saudis a run for their [oil] money in any aerial clash over the Gulf, perhaps even getting the better of them.

Agreed on all points. MBS might be the great millenial hope of the Saudis at the moment, but his foreign policy decisions have left quite a bit to be desired. And Soleimani has shown that he's more than capable on the Iranian side. Hopefully it doesn't end up escalating, but the next couple of years should prove interesting (meant in the apocryphal Chinese curse context of "interesting").