Twilight Spain

[mariamoreno]

Excellent forum I congratulate you very informative I came to your page for an announcement in 123movie and the truth I do not regret

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Excellent forum I congratulate you very informative I came to your page for an announcement in 123movie and the truth I do not regret

SPAM
Feel free to delete my comment when you delete the above post.

[Southernap]

Well actually it seems unlikely you will find Spanish troops on the front alongside other NATO members.
Basically, "no troops were to be deployed outside of Spain on a sustained basis" and the command structure is not integrated into that of the rest of NATO. http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-13103.html
It would seem their role in the event of WWIII would be to secure a strategic base of operations (ie their own borders) in order to facilitate counter attacks upon the PACT forces when the rest of Europe was lost.
Spain, the ultimate REMFs/pogues...

If you wanted to spice it up you might run across some of the Spanish Naval and Air Forces in the Caribbean and Southern US. Considering that their Naval forces and Maritime Patrol aircraft (P-3s and maybe their AV-8s) would have been running to support convoys between the US and Europe. So a Spanish ship stuck in a place like Puerto Rico, Grenada, some port in FL or the US Gulf Coast because of lack of parts, supplies, damage whatever might be a possibility. If not some left over planes somewhere that escaped nuclear attacks against the Spanish territories in the Atlantic (like the Canary and the prime NATO base at the Azores).

I would also wonder if the French might not have pushed into the Pyrenees in the T2K world to chase their own Basque and related terror groups. Let alone the historical "ownership" of territories in the Pyrenees near the Bay of Biscay that are real world Spanish land, used to be in the 1700s belong to the French.

Having been thru Spain more than a few times on my experiences with the US Military. The internal politics of Spain are very, very complicated to a US citizen. There is still plenty of bad blood about the Spanish Civil War (see the recent real world news articles about whether to dig up Franco and the rest of his lot and bury them in some unmarked grave or if that is dishonorable, it is almost to the same scale as the US Civil War debates). As well the Spanish had numerous terror groups that, if memory serves me right, that were being influenced or leaned heavily towards the KGB ruble for payment and advisory. So its Army more than likely would have been trying to lock down security and backing up its Guardia Civil. Who are some folks, that I have seen operate in real life and they are the law in Spain. The Guardia aren't folks you mess around with, they like to use the baton first and ask questions after their arms get tired.

With respect to targets for nuclear attacks. Assuming that the Cold War doesn't end. Not only is Rota/Gibraltar a nuclear target. the USAF 16th AF has its HQ located at Torrejon AB its roughly 30km from city center of Madrid. As well Zaragoza AB that is up near the French-Spanish Border region. You could leave both of those bases alone if you accept V1 of the timeline where Spain with the collapse of NATO (see Italy pull out and Greece pull out, with the Germans starting the war) declares itself neutral and kicks out NATO forces from Spain. If you go the V2 route, then either have any potential nukes for these bases miss or they aren't targeted at all because the 16th AF will have moved all its forces out just prior to the use of nukes in 1997.

With respect to land forces OrBATs another idea is at Wargame Vault. There is a company there called MicroMark Army. They produced a number of PDFs for the Cold War armies. Here is just the European selections and they do have listed both Spain and Portugal.

If you are curious as to what one of the lists looks like see the attachment of one I bought for another project. It is what a Canadian armored division looked like on paper when in Italy in 1943.

[RN7]

If not some left over planes somewhere that escaped nuclear attacks against the Spanish territories in the Atlantic (like the Canary and the prime NATO base at the Azores)

The Azores are Portuguese.

[Southernap]

The Azores are Portuguese.

I realized that after I posted and was just too lazy to go back in and edit my post.

[Enfield]

If you wanted to spice it up you might run across some of the Spanish Naval and Air Forces in the Caribbean and Southern US. Considering that their Naval forces and Maritime Patrol aircraft (P-3s and maybe their AV-8s) would have been running to support convoys between the US and Europe. So a Spanish ship stuck in a place like Puerto Rico, Grenada, some port in FL or the US Gulf Coast because of lack of parts, supplies, damage whatever might be a possibility. If not some left over planes somewhere that escaped nuclear attacks against the Spanish territories in the Atlantic (like the Canary and the prime NATO base at the Azores).

I would also wonder if the French might not have pushed into the Pyrenees in the T2K world to chase their own Basque and related terror groups. Let alone the historical "ownership" of territories in the Pyrenees near the Bay of Biscay that are real world Spanish land, used to be in the 1700s belong to the French.

Having been thru Spain more than a few times on my experiences with the US Military. The internal politics of Spain are very, very complicated to a US citizen. There is still plenty of bad blood about the Spanish Civil War (see the recent real world news articles about whether to dig up Franco and the rest of his lot and bury them in some unmarked grave or if that is dishonorable, it is almost to the same scale as the US Civil War debates). As well the Spanish had numerous terror groups that, if memory serves me right, that were being influenced or leaned heavily towards the KGB ruble for payment and advisory. So its Army more than likely would have been trying to lock down security and backing up its Guardia Civil. Who are some folks, that I have seen operate in real life and they are the law in Spain. The Guardia aren't folks you mess around with, they like to use the baton first and ask questions after their arms get tired.

With respect to targets for nuclear attacks. Assuming that the Cold War doesn't end. Not only is Rota/Gibraltar a nuclear target. the USAF 16th AF has its HQ located at Torrejon AB its roughly 30km from city center of Madrid. As well Zaragoza AB that is up near the French-Spanish Border region. You could leave both of those bases alone if you accept V1 of the timeline where Spain with the collapse of NATO (see Italy pull out and Greece pull out, with the Germans starting the war) declares itself neutral and kicks out NATO forces from Spain. If you go the V2 route, then either have any potential nukes for these bases miss or they aren't targeted at all because the 16th AF will have moved all its forces out just prior to the use of nukes in 1997.

With respect to land forces OrBATs another idea is at Wargame Vault. There is a company there called MicroMark Army. They produced a number of PDFs for the Cold War armies. Here is just the European selections and they do have listed both Spain and Portugal.

If you are curious as to what one of the lists looks like see the attachment of one I bought for another project. It is what a Canadian armored division looked like on paper when in Italy in 1943.

Interesting. I included oil refinery targets in the hit list for Spain. The Air Force bases as further targets make sense.

Did they do a micro mark ORBAT for Spain

[Southernap]

Interesting. I included oil refinery targets in the hit list for Spain. The Air Force bases as further targets make sense.

Did they do a micro mark ORBAT for Spain

With respect to land forces OrBATs another idea is at Wargame Vault. There is a company there called MicroMark Army. They produced a number of PDFs for the Cold War armies. Here is just the European selections and they do have listed both Spain and Portugal.

See the boldface in the first reply.

[Olefin]

One thing that could easily be added to the game and I may address it in the next fanzine would be Spanish volunteers who chose to fight with NATO even if the country doesnt. I.e. similar to the division that fought in the Soviet Union during WWII.

[Ewan]

One thing that could easily be added to the game and I may address it in the next fanzine would be Spanish volunteers who chose to fight with NATO even if the country doesnt. I.e. similar to the division that fought in the Soviet Union during WWII.

Excellent idea 👍

[Legbreaker]

That's about the only way I can see them being anywhere but Spain and it's territories.

[Olefin]

FYI keep in mind the Spanish territories for sure - those little possessions in North Africa most likely didnt get nuked - and could be interesting places for what trade remains - and thus places to run into Spanish troops who are garrisoning them - even possibly taking advantage of the chaos in Morocco and Algeria to try to gain territory -

i.e. per the East Africa canon Morocco lost Casablanca and Algeria took a major pasting - Skikda (Philippeville), Algiers, Arzew, and Oran all got nuked in Algeria

[Olefin]

FYI - this was posted on the Facebook T2K group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/twilight2k/fref=nf

A piece of fandom history from Spain. In 1994 the fanzine Mercenario dedicated an article to "Spain in Twilight: 2000", titled "NukEspa+-a". I just retrieved my original copy and read it again. It is pretty good, a mix of post-apocalyptic RPG fiction, prospective/uchronic speculation and a lot of our characteristic dark humour and self-awareness of our defects and darker venues.
The fanzine can be donwloaded here: http://www.sinergiaderol.com/R/Merce...cenario-03.rar

Its in Spanish and not sure there was ever a translated version

[Olefin]

can anyone open the rar file - havent had any luck with it - and hard to read the pics posted on the FB group

[StainlessSteelCynic]

can anyone open the rar file - havent had any luck with it - and hard to read the pics posted on the FB group

There's definitely some problems happening.
I get a 404 error when trying to download the RAR file from the link you posted but using the link on the facebook page informs me that to download the full 33.4 MB file will take over an hour (on broadband) - there's something screwy going on with the download from facebook and I'm wondering if that has caused some corruption in the RAR file when you downloaded it

Oh, interesting - I'm downloading the RAR from the facebook link as I type this - the time left has jumped up to two hours, now down to 47 seconds, back to one hour...
Waiting, waiting... done.

Okay, I got the RAR file and I can open it without problem, maybe you need to download it again
If that doesn't work send me a PM so I can forward my download to you.

[Olefin]

There's definitely some problems happening.
I get a 404 error when trying to download the RAR file from the link you posted but using the link on the facebook page informs me that to download the full 33.4 MB file will take over an hour (on broadband) - there's something screwy going on with the download from facebook and I'm wondering if that has caused some corruption in the RAR file when you downloaded it

Oh, interesting - I'm downloading the RAR from the facebook link as I type this - the time left has jumped up to two hours, now down to 47 seconds, back to one hour...
Waiting, waiting... done.

Okay, I got the RAR file and I can open it without problem, maybe you need to download it again
If that doesn't work send me a PM so I can forward my download to you.

sent you a PM