Originally posted by Olefin
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Equipment changes towards 2000 (Brit focused)
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Regardless of how you handle the L85 question, it's important to remember not to mix ammo types/calibres in a unit if at all possible. I can't imagine any unit smaller than battalion sized having more than a single rifle, SMG, pistol type purely because to do otherwise would put far too much unnecessary strain on the logistics system.
It's not just ammo that is the issue either, but spare parts and repair of damaged weapons. The more variety the armourer has to deal with, the less effective in their job they'll be.
Later in the war of course this situation might change with soldiers using whatever they can get their hands on, but there is still likely to be a concerted effort to try and keep units using the same thing as much as possible.
Also, as has been discussed in earlier threads, the use of enemy weapons can cause serious problems - an AK for example has a distinctive shape and is easily recognisable by just about everyone as a Pact weapon. There's a good chance anyone carrying one could become casualties of a friendly fire incident. Same thing for Pact troops carrying western weapons.If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.
Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"
Mors ante pudorem
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In regards to the upgrade of the L85A1 to L85A2, it's worth remembering that Heckler & Koch was owned by Royal Ordnance during the 1990s and part of the reason for having H&K do the upgrades was to keep the workers at H&K employed.
If the Cold War had continued, it's probably likely that H&K would have been sufficiently financial (with contracts from the German government) so that they would not have been taken over by Royal Ordnance. There would have been no need for RO to pass the A2 upgrade work over to H&K and it would have in all likelihood been done entirely in the UK.
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I always find the range of opinions on the SA80A1 fascinating. Guys who I've spoken to who used it in the early days (and even a few more recent ) are generally not fond of it (I really should ask my father in law what he thought, but he spent most of career with SLR so I can probably guess! Generally I gather the A2 is a much more refined weapon, but I can see there being a much more hasty refit program in the T2k timeline and by circa 98 a mix of A1's and A2's in service.
A question for those with maintenance knowledge - could the refits have been done in a field workshop by the REME, if the factories were destroyed
I can see militia, ad hoc scratch forces etc being armed with a much wider assorted random mix of whatever is available with preference being given to keep regular and TA units in much more standardised equipment sets. It's a no-brainer to have SLR and LMG common to reserves, any sa80's being switched out to the regs.
The AR 18 is interesting, I wasn't aware of that.
I might throw some in for the oddity value. Maybe a container ready to be shipped out has been found on the back of an abandoned truck on the way to Dover and seized by a local warlord...
I know there were quite a few Stalwarts in private hands - a mate of my dad's had one early 90's iirc, he loved it, and I remember seeing quite a few at vehicle rallies etc - so they plus the ferrets sold privately (of which there were a lot) would be fair game. There's even a guy who has a 432 parked on the roadside in Manchester...
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If you scroll forward to Appendix B (page 113) in my document I list equipment holdings (and planned equipment holdings/orders) circa July 1989. I added a page long dissertation on British MBTs. I will add more whenever The Kew re-opens as I have found documents regarding Equipment holdings and plans for the 1990s
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Originally posted by Louied View PostIf you scroll forward to Appendix B (page 113) in my document I list equipment holdings (and planned equipment holdings/orders) circa July 1989. I added a page long dissertation on British MBTs. I will add more whenever The Kew re-opens as I have found documents regarding Equipment holdings and plans for the 1990s
https://www.orbat85.nl/documents/BAOR-July-1989.pdf
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Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostAs someone who had the opportunity to use the L85A1 during the early 1990s, I am going to dispute the claims that the L85 was "rubbish" and that it suffered "truly horrid performance".
The L85A1 certainly had issues but they were vastly overblown by the media at the time. Yes it had problems with the plastic furniture deforming/breaking and the magazine catch being exposed and other problems but many of these issues were teething problems that could have been sorted out before issue if the government had not tried to do things on the cheap and tried to push it into service so soon.
If you think the situation is unique to the L85, have a read about the early years of the M16 and I can tell you some of the claims about the first batch of F88 rifles that follow the same sort of "this rifle is crap" soldier's tales.
The rifle was very accurate, with better accuracy than the M16A1, M16A2, F88, L1A1 and M14 I was also able to shoot on the same days. I put this down to the SUSAT sight. With iron sights it probably would have had a comparable accuracy to the others.
It did tend to feel as though it was overheating compared to the other riles and it was heavier than the other 5.56 rifles however that weight tended to be towards the rear so it didn't feel unbalanced to me. As a bullpup, like the F88, it was very quick to "point & shoot".
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