Oil in T2k

[Legbreaker]

Well you've got most of the nukes happening in the second half of 1997 with another weaker exchange around Autumn 1998. Nothing to say there weren't a few small tac nukes used in the meantime though especially since the timelines are primarily referring to strategic level strikes.
We do know the Romanians were reforming regular combat units in early 98 and so would be a very tempting target, especially with NATO attempting to push into Czechoslovakia around this time and forcing the PACT to relocate units to counter them.

Of course there's nothing in canon about any of this, but it is an interesting and plausible idea nonetheless.

[chico20854]

Dragging this zombie thread back to its original topic, I just came across this article on (very!) makeshift oil refineries in Syria. I can certainly see something similar happening in the T2k context for areas that have oil wells, or even a loaded crude oil tanker, pipeline or tank farm to salvage from.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/fr/in-...ries-617075533

And the description in the article of what RL conditions are for the unfortunate folks that are working them would probably be similar in the T2kU.

[castlebravo92]

On a related technical note, given the ubiquitousness of methanol as a transportation fuel in T2K, it's probably worth pointing out that getting ethanes (aka gasoline length hydrocarbons) from methanol to gas conversion is probably less technologically challenging than getting gasoline from sour crude.

https://www.netl.doe.gov/research/coal/energy-systems/gasification/gasifipedia/methanol-to-gasoline

Probably not exactly great in terms of net return on energy, but it's one of the processes used to create gasoline from natural gas (which is mostly methane).

Methane -> methanol -> ethanes.

[Green Monkey]

Dragging this zombie thread back to its original topic, I just came across this article on (very!) makeshift oil refineries in Syria. I can certainly see something similar happening in the T2k context for areas that have oil wells, or even a loaded crude oil tanker, pipeline or tank farm to salvage from.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/fr/in-...ries-617075533

And the description in the article of what RL conditions are for the unfortunate folks that are working them would probably be similar in the T2kU.

I've always been interested in these types of improvised refineries in a T2K context. They exist throughout the world ranging from this type of primitive facility in war-torn places like Syria and Chechnya to fairly standardised low complexity "teapot" refineries throughout China.

I think that the availability of basic refined products would be higher than it's presented to be in the world (certainly 1st edition) and I think every faction would be trying to develop this type of thing.

[Ursus Maior]

After the austerity measures of the 1980s though, I think the Romanians were pretty much at the breaking point in regards to their government. Those same austerity measures lead the Romanian people to rebel against their government and hunt down & execute the leader Ceaușescu. Switching sides to NATO isn't as far fetched as it sounds at first glance.

Even more so: Ceaușescu'S Romania had left the Warsaw Pact in all but name, which they figured was the red line for the Soviets. Socialist Romania didn't allow for Soviet troops within its borders and it had its own defense industry producing upgrades for T-55s (still in service today) and knock-ofs of stuff like the BTR-70 and the BMP-1.

I wrote this somewhere on the board a while back: By the 1980s, the Warsaw Pact was a scam. The only true ally the Soviets could count on was the East German GDR, and that only for the facts that the Soviets had so many divisions in country and Premier Honecker was a staunch believer. The ČSSR was economically least dependent on the Soviets and had a good army, but their leadership lacked the blind belief of the GDR. The Polish hatred towards the Russians made them an ally the Soviets didn't trust. Hungary had no army to fool anybody - the officer's corps never recovered from the aftermath of the 1956 revolution and the beating they took from the Soviets.

Bulgaria, last but not least, had an army honest to God still fielding T-34s in active divisions with the rest of the equipment barely better. They never made it out of the 1960s and that only with the airforce (MiG-21, Su-22, MiG-23MF as mainstay). The army did receive some 300 T-72s late in the Cold War, but a good chunk still was T-34s, SU-100s and a lot of towed WW2 vintage artillery.

Ceaușescu absurdly overspent on the military, but more out of fear of the Soviets than the West. It cost him everything in the end, since he starved his people to death, sometimes literally. He was one of the most brutal dictators in Europe after World War Two, which is saying something. However, economically, Romania was outpacing other Eastern Bloc countries by far during the 1980s, thanks to heavy investments from Western nations since the 1960s and many economic ties: the Canadians even built a nuclear power plant, which still produces around 20 % of Romanian electric power (however, a second reactor block was added in 2007). Ceaușescu certainly did his part to make the Romanians suffer under his austerity, though.

[Bestbrian]

I've always been interested in these types of improvised refineries in a T2K context. They exist throughout the world ranging from this type of primitive facility in war-torn places like Syria and Chechnya to fairly standardised low complexity "teapot" refineries throughout China.

I think that the availability of basic refined products would be higher than it's presented to be in the world (certainly 1st edition) and I think every faction would be trying to develop this type of thing.

I think there would be a lot of local refining and inventiveness, but I wonder if what was produced would be too valuable to burn in light of the need for lubricants and its value as a trade good. How tough is it to refine motor oil and axle grease

[castlebravo92]

I think there would be a lot of local refining and inventiveness, but I wonder if what was produced would be too valuable to burn in light of the need for lubricants and its value as a trade good. How tough is it to refine motor oil and axle grease

Doubt it would be too valuable to burn. Mechanization for a lot of people would be the difference between life and death. A farmer with a tractor can plow a lot of land. Plowing even 40 acres with animal labor isn't easy or fast, and without animal labor...you are looking at maybe a few acres, per person.

So, it doesn't take a petrochemical engineer to get low molecular weight hydrocarbons (eg, ethanes) out of oil, which are the primary energetic component in gasoline. A lot of wells will produce "drip gas" as well, which is considered "natural" gasoline. The problem is, these low molecular weight hydrocarbons have an octane rating of around 50. It works fine in low compression, long stroke piston engines, but does not work (really at all) in modern high compression engines.

A big part of the modern gasoline / diesel refining process is not so much in the fractional distillation of oil into liquids but in the additives downstream of the raw refinery process. The easiest/cheapest way to boost the octane is to use TEL or tetra ethyl lead. This has other downsides, like lowering IQ in children. MBTE is another additive they used to use to boost octane before it started showing up in ground water and reservoirs. You can use ethanol also, but it's not nearly as helpful in ratio terms. In any event, the big challenge for producing gasoline would be getting the right additive chemicals added in, almost all of which are downstream from an intact oil industry (and the chemical plants are usually located in close physical proximity to existing refineries). These are the things that would require a petrochemical engineer and some chemists to get going starting from the ground up. Not impossible, especially in university towns near oil fields (e.g., Texas Tech in Lubbock probably has the brain power to stand something up more or less from scratch).