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  • #16
    On the animal side, rabbits are a surprisingly good animal to raise if you can keep them safe, clean, and fed. A herd of cows produces about 20% of their mass as harvestable meat per year. Rabbits or chickens are 500%, and rabbits can be fed more things that aren't edible for humans. An acre of hutches (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was being researched for space stations) running efficiently will produce 145 pounds of meat per day. Their manure is also better for fertilizer than cow, horse, or chicken, and it won't burn plants if it's not composted properly.

    For preservation, winter squash, potatoes, and onions will last a long time if stored in a cool, dry area. Some other root crops can be left in the ground during winter in cool areas if they're covered with a thick layer of leaves or straw. (This also makes them less visible to raiders or scavengers).

    Lots of stuff can be dried, which will keep for months or years. It's (ironically) a bit water-intensive, since most things should be blanched before drying and water's often needed for reconstitution, but it'll preserve food. Even without a purpose-built dehydrator, vegetables can be dried near a stove or with sunlight.
    The poster formerly known as The Dark

    The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

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    • #17
      Have the PCs be taught the Ruth Stout method of gardening, it partially mitigates some of the main issues that complete newcomers to farming would have to deal with - it's not so labour intensive, it doesn't need as much water, it doesn't need weeding. But it is not without it's own negatives, it requires nitrogen which can, however, be conveniently supplied by fresh grass.
      Much better detail here: -
      The Ruth Stout garden method is called the lazy gardening method, a way to improve your garden’s soil fertility by letting nature do the work.


      And as an example of how effective it can be, how does 337 pounds of potatoes sound Details in the following video: -


      The YouTube channel where that video is from is definitely worth browsing, they explore some questions we typically don't think of, such as, can you eat grass, how to make a root cellar out of an old chest freezer and so on.

      Comment


      • #18
        3 Sisters

        What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.



        Here's a quote from the blog:

        "Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."



        -
        Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

        https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
        https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
        https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
        https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
        https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Vespers War View Post
          On the animal side, rabbits are a surprisingly good animal to raise if you can keep them safe, clean, and fed. A herd of cows produces about 20% of their mass as harvestable meat per year. Rabbits or chickens are 500%, and rabbits can be fed more things that aren't edible for humans. An acre of hutches (which sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was being researched for space stations) running efficiently will produce 145 pounds of meat per day. Their manure is also better for fertilizer than cow, horse, or chicken, and it won't burn plants if it's not composted properly.

          For preservation, winter squash, potatoes, and onions will last a long time if stored in a cool, dry area. Some other root crops can be left in the ground during winter in cool areas if they're covered with a thick layer of leaves or straw. (This also makes them less visible to raiders or scavengers).

          Lots of stuff can be dried, which will keep for months or years. It's (ironically) a bit water-intensive, since most things should be blanched before drying and water's often needed for reconstitution, but it'll preserve food. Even without a purpose-built dehydrator, vegetables can be dried near a stove or with sunlight.

          Good ideas. The characters might try to explore other farms in the area. I am going with the idea from the module that the area near the Columbia River north of the Coulee Dam is mostly insular. So that could be interesting. I figure that livestock like rabbits or chickens that go feral would be surviving, but they also could trade for them.

          Thank you for the ideas on preservation. I will include that in the advice the PCs are given.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
            Have the PCs be taught the Ruth Stout method of gardening, it partially mitigates some of the main issues that complete newcomers to farming would have to deal with - it's not so labour intensive, it doesn't need as much water, it doesn't need weeding. But it is not without it's own negatives, it requires nitrogen which can, however, be conveniently supplied by fresh grass.
            Much better detail here: -
            The Ruth Stout garden method is called the lazy gardening method, a way to improve your garden’s soil fertility by letting nature do the work.


            And as an example of how effective it can be, how does 337 pounds of potatoes sound Details in the following video: -


            The YouTube channel where that video is from is definitely worth browsing, they explore some questions we typically don't think of, such as, can you eat grass, how to make a root cellar out of an old chest freezer and so on.
            that's a good idea for the options, and I can use the Youtube video as inspiration for their instructions.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Raellus View Post
              What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.



              Here's a quote from the blog:

              "Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."



              -
              There is a major reservation near the area. I wonder if they practice such growing in that area though Isn't that practice an Eastern tradition

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Enfield View Post
                Good ideas. The characters might try to explore other farms in the area. I am going with the idea from the module that the area near the Columbia River north of the Coulee Dam is mostly insular. So that could be interesting. I figure that livestock like rabbits or chickens that go feral would be surviving, but they also could trade for them.

                Thank you for the ideas on preservation. I will include that in the advice the PCs are given.
                Good article on vegetables that can be left in the ground for your players for the farm - https://lovelygreens.com/storing-roo...0and%20carrots.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I am only a rancher here in California but, as for agriculture I know that it all depends upon water, weather, and luck. If I were to go about it I would:

                  1st.. Catch Rabbits. For an immediate food source. Easy to breed. Cheap. Food is fairly easy to get for them; weeds, grass, flowers etc.

                  2nd... get a water source. Spring Boxes are easy to build. A redwood box dug into the ground about 3 or 4 feet. Pipe at the bottom going down hill into a storage tank. Pump water to high elevation and gravity feed from there.

                  3rd.. Harvesting and ground work equipment would be tough to maintain I think. Far harder to find or make the correct bushings for a disk plow than that of a Chevy pickup.

                  4th.. Cultivating ground for farming. Cow manure, rabbit offal, etc is a good fertilizer in lieu of the real stuff! Remember that someone with civil engineering could get the fall right for irrigating also.

                  4th.. Start transplants. Efficiency is found by growing transplants and planting the little started plants into actual farm fields. Think Green House to start them.

                  5th.. Get Cows and horses. The West Wasn't won on Carrots. (Had to plug my livelihood.) (Also Vesper, depending upon breed of cow, health etc etc. We look for a 60 to 65% yield. It takes me about 7 months of normal natural grass to get a 600 to 700 pound steer and I live in a lackluster enviroment.)

                  6th.. Pesticides, weeding, and water. Irrigation pipe would be fairly easy to find, especially in suburbs. 3/4" pvc with 1/8" holes drilled into it would work and that is found in every yard, with a shovel.

                  7th.. Rotation due to season. Strawberries do NOT do well in the rain for example. They get destroyed.

                  8th.. harvesting storage etc. I would again go with cats. I will also admit that this is where my knowledge starts failing me.

                  I hope I'm not being too wordy but there is quite alot of roll playing that can go into this and I am interested to see how this plays out with your group. Once it got going it is viable.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
                    ...it requires nitrogen...
                    Rotating or companion planting a crop of legumes helps a LOT to fix nitrogen in the soil for use by other plants. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edi...re-legumes.htm
                    If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                    Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                    Mors ante pudorem

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Enfield View Post
                      How good are they at getting into food bins and silos
                      My house is damn near airtight, yet I'm still getting them inside.
                      If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                      Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                      Mors ante pudorem

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Olefin View Post
                        Good article on vegetables that can be left in the ground for your players for the farm - https://lovelygreens.com/storing-roo...0and%20carrots.
                        Thanks!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                          My house is damn near airtight, yet I'm still getting them inside.
                          Poison apparently works quite well. What do you use

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Milano View Post
                            I am only a rancher here in California but, as for agriculture I know that it all depends upon water, weather, and luck. If I were to go about it I would:

                            1st.. Catch Rabbits. For an immediate food source. Easy to breed. Cheap. Food is fairly easy to get for them; weeds, grass, flowers etc.

                            2nd... get a water source. Spring Boxes are easy to build. A redwood box dug into the ground about 3 or 4 feet. Pipe at the bottom going down hill into a storage tank. Pump water to high elevation and gravity feed from there.

                            3rd.. Harvesting and ground work equipment would be tough to maintain I think. Far harder to find or make the correct bushings for a disk plow than that of a Chevy pickup.

                            4th.. Cultivating ground for farming. Cow manure, rabbit offal, etc is a good fertilizer in lieu of the real stuff! Remember that someone with civil engineering could get the fall right for irrigating also.

                            4th.. Start transplants. Efficiency is found by growing transplants and planting the little started plants into actual farm fields. Think Green House to start them.

                            5th.. Get Cows and horses. The West Wasn't won on Carrots. (Had to plug my livelihood.) (Also Vesper, depending upon breed of cow, health etc etc. We look for a 60 to 65% yield. It takes me about 7 months of normal natural grass to get a 600 to 700 pound steer and I live in a lackluster enviroment.)

                            6th.. Pesticides, weeding, and water. Irrigation pipe would be fairly easy to find, especially in suburbs. 3/4" pvc with 1/8" holes drilled into it would work and that is found in every yard, with a shovel.

                            7th.. Rotation due to season. Strawberries do NOT do well in the rain for example. They get destroyed.

                            8th.. harvesting storage etc. I would again go with cats. I will also admit that this is where my knowledge starts failing me.

                            I hope I'm not being too wordy but there is quite alot of roll playing that can go into this and I am interested to see how this plays out with your group. Once it got going it is viable.
                            Thank you for the recommendations for planning.

                            As I understand it, the Okanagan Valley is a somewhat dry climate but works well for orchard crops. Do you know anything about ranching in that part of the state

                            One thing I have often observed when watching post apocalyptic TV and movies is how often characters avoid areas in rural towns where they might have construction equipment, farming equipment, etc. If the rural folk have been driven out by hordes of refugees or marauders, it seems to me that there might still be heavy equipment to scavenge. One problem will be that they will not be experienced at handling or maintaining it if they do find it. The other will probably be finding a supply of diesel or getting the vehicles converted to alternate fuel.

                            One good thing the party does have is a well, which they have to maintain and clear contaminants from.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Enfield View Post
                              Thank you for the recommendations for planning.

                              As I understand it, the Okanagan Valley is a somewhat dry climate but works well for orchard crops. Do you know anything about ranching in that part of the state
                              Portions of a 2011 census of crops and farm animals for Thompson-Okanagan:
                              Grain 6,500 hectares
                              Corn for silage 3,344 ha
                              Hay and pasture 437,000 ha
                              Alfalfa 42,418 ha
                              Hay 61,162 ha
                              Potatoes 170 ha
                              Fruits, berries and nuts 9,598 ha
                              Field grown vegetables 887 ha

                              Hens and chickens 1,808,625
                              Cattle and calves 171,000
                              Pigs 1,135
                              Sheep 13,603
                              Horses and ponies 11,672
                              Rabbits 987
                              Goats 3,534

                              (all from this PDF)
                              The poster formerly known as The Dark

                              The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Raellus View Post
                                What about the Native Americans' "Three Sisters" method of planting beans, squash, and corn all together It's pretty efficient in terms of labor, and the space-to-yield ratio is favorable.



                                Here's a quote from the blog:

                                "Corn provides tall stalks for the beans to climb so that they are not out-competed by sprawling squash vines. Beans provide nitrogen to fertilize the soil while also stabilizing the tall corn during heavy winds. Beans are nitrogen-fixers meaning they host rhizobia on their roots that can take nitrogen, a much needed plant nutrient, from the air and convert it into forms that can be absorbed by plant roots. The large leaves of squash plants shade the ground which helps retain soil moisture and prevent weeds."



                                -
                                Long-term, milpa agriculture ends up being basically a five field system, because it follows two years of cultivation with eight years left fallow. It's effective, but it ends up requiring a good amount of space over the long haul because of the long fallow period.

                                Other crops can also be included - pumpkin, avocado, chili - but I haven't read what the proper spacing of planting is for the additional crops.
                                The poster formerly known as The Dark

                                The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War.

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