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Female Combat Soldiers in T2K

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  • #31
    I've met women in the Army who could cut it as infantrymen. Not many -- but they are there. IRL, they'd be very rare, but in T2K, they'd be more common, due to simple shortages in manpower.

    Women, by and large, can't match men in the strength department. In the constitution department, they can often beat men, and in the area of agility, particularly, they can usually beat men, which is why the US is realizing that women make good combat pilots. Intelligence and Education, of course, are not gender-specific, except for Education in some parts of the world.

    Charisma is a special case. I knew a lot of men, both in the civilian and military workplace, who simply had no respect for women. It's a cultural deficiency that's out of date, but still around, especially in Islamic cultures.

    IRL, you'd make the best out of female and male attributes -- for example, men make the best grunts, but some of the deadliest Soviet snipers in World War 2 were women. One of Nazi Germany's best pilots was female. And doing stuff like intel is sheer mind work. Delta has the funny platoon, which has women. Interrogation -- well, women can have a surprising effect on prisoners (and I don't mean in a sexual sense or something like that) -- particularly male prisoners, And here and there, you'll just find individuals that surprise you -- one of the toughest infantryman I ever met was a little guy, about 5'4" and 120 pounds, wearing the tentpeg glasses and looking for all the world like some computer geek that had no business in the Army period.

    And of course, the allowing of females in combat arms in T2K was primarily to attract female players -- you get someone who wants to play a female Delta operator and rolls a character that can do it, why not It would make for an interesting character story.
    I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

    Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

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    • #32
      In a way, we already have women who have acted as de facto grunts: female MPs, the Lioness teams in Iraq and A-Stan, and the women who are TDY'd to infantry units to search local women-one of the latter (a medic in the 82nd Airborne) won a Silver Star in A-Stan for going after some wounded guys whose Hummer ran over an IED, all the while being under fire, and in between treating the injured, returning it. The Houston Chronicle article (she was from a town NE of Houston IIRC) mentioned that some in the unit she was attached to wanted her to get something bigger than a Silver Star, but Division declined. Trouble was, that medic got pulled from the TDY assignment and back in the aid station when all the publicity broke. Then there was KY NG Sgt. Leann Hester and the Raven 42 incident. She was the first woman to get a Silver Star since an Army Nurse at Anzio won one in WW II.

      Paul, isn't one of the Russian women you refer to Ludmilla Pavalchenko She had 303 confirmed kills before being pulled from combat duty on Stalin's orders and sent on good-will visits to Britain, Canada, and the U.S. When she got back, she was commissioned as an officer and given a free hand to set up a sniper school and to be the OINC. That's also the Soviet system: there were captains and majors galore, but she was a Senior Lt., and since there was this order from Uncle Joe appointing her OINC of the school, guess who those guys had to click their heels to
      Treat everyone you meet with kindness and respect, but always have a plan to kill them.

      Old USMC Adage

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      • #33
        The Australian defence minister has today announced that all remaining gender-based restrictions on women serving in front-line military roles has been lifted; women will be phased into such roles over the next 5 years (assuming, I presume, they reach the required standards although I don't know whether existing standards will be modified to help them).
        sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli

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        • #34
          Politically that might now be possible, but I just can't see too many women being assigned to combat roles. It'll be a good generation or so before there's more than the odd token woman in any one battalion.
          The testosterone laden, male dominated combat arms will need a whole new mindset before it occurs.
          If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

          Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

          Mors ante pudorem

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          • #35
            Plus you have to take into account that the Australian Defence Minister did NOT make such a move to advance women's rights or any other philanthropic reason.
            He did it to advance his own political career - he and the government he is part of still believe it's wrong for two lesbians to marry so he really ain't that concerned about advancing the cause of women.

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            • #36
              And of course those recent sexual "misdemeanours" at ADFA didn't have any impact at all did they....
              For those who don't know, there was one case a couple of months ago of two cadet officers having sex. The male set up his laptop to webcast the event to his classmates a few rooms away. Once she found out and made a complaint, the military tried to bury it. She ended up going to the media and the waves went all the way to the top (in both political and military circles).

              More recently a foreign officer cadet (can't recall where from) was caught after setting up a camera in an air vent above a female shower. It's still going through the legal system, but he was immediately removed from training and I'd be VERY surprised if he doesn't find himself kicked out of the country, followed shortly after by a dishonourable discharge from his own military.
              If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

              Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

              Mors ante pudorem

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                And of course those recent sexual "misdemeanours" at ADFA didn't have any impact at all did they....
                For those who don't know, there was one case a couple of months ago of two cadet officers having sex. The male set up his laptop to webcast the event to his classmates a few rooms away. Once she found out and made a complaint, the military tried to bury it. She ended up going to the media and the waves went all the way to the top (in both political and military circles).

                More recently a foreign officer cadet (can't recall where from) was caught after setting up a camera in an air vent above a female shower. It's still going through the legal system, but he was immediately removed from training and I'd be VERY surprised if he doesn't find himself kicked out of the country, followed shortly after by a dishonourable discharge from his own military.
                They're shits and should be shown the door after a HEAVY court-martial (from your account, possibly one of them was) and much media attention to drag their names through the dirt.
                I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Matt Wiser View Post

                  Paul, isn't one of the Russian women you refer to Ludmilla Pavalchenko She had 303 confirmed kills before being pulled from combat duty on Stalin's orders and sent on good-will visits to Britain, Canada, and the U.S. When she got back, she was commissioned as an officer and given a free hand to set up a sniper school and to be the OINC. That's also the Soviet system: there were captains and majors galore, but she was a Senior Lt., and since there was this order from Uncle Joe appointing her OINC of the school, guess who those guys had to click their heels to
                  Thanks; I am always forgetting her name.
                  I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                  Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Matt Wiser View Post
                    ...the Lioness teams in Iraq and A-Stan, and the women who are TDY'd to infantry units to search local women-one of the latter (a medic in the 82nd Airborne) won a Silver Star in A-Stan for going after some wounded guys whose Hummer ran over an IED, all the while being under fire, and in between treating the injured, returning it. The Houston Chronicle article (she was from a town NE of Houston IIRC) mentioned that some in the unit she was attached to wanted her to get something bigger than a Silver Star, but Division declined. Trouble was, that medic got pulled from the TDY assignment and back in the aid station when all the publicity broke. Then there was KY NG Sgt. Leann Hester and the Raven 42 incident. She was the first woman to get a Silver Star since an Army Nurse at Anzio won one in WW II.
                    I knew about the female medal winners, and women used to search female captives, but the Lioness Teams is new info to me...I sense another Google search coming...
                    I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                    Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Deadlier than the male

                      Had a close female friend who spent time in Intelligence School back in the 80s: she said that some of the pretty, cute, sweet-thang type of fellow female interrogator-trainees were the most vicious, ruthless, remorseless, heartless, soulless, evil-doing bitches (her own words) in the universe. Be afraid.
                      "Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001.

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                      • #41
                        Brad Thor's "Athena Project" is a good read... it's about an extremely topsecret fourth squadron of delta force that is made up of all female operations teams. The storyline in the first book of the series ("The Athena Project" deals with things dealing with matter transporters that the Nazi's had been doing getting into the hands of bad guys) shows the kinds of jobs women in special ops are perfect to carry out, and gives a long list of all the reasons for such team using all women, and touches on some of the downsides as well. If i could loan it out on knidle i'd be willing to loan it so everyone could get a chance to read it.
                        Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by WallShadow View Post
                          Had a close female friend who spent time in Intelligence School back in the 80s: she said that some of the pretty, cute, sweet-thang type of fellow female interrogator-trainees were the most vicious, ruthless, remorseless, heartless, soulless, evil-doing bitches (her own words) in the universe. Be afraid.
                          My friend Gladys Vazquez was doing AIT there at about the same time. She was an Intelligence Analyst with a Linguist secondary (she's like my mother, she picks up languages at the drop of a hat).

                          As an aside, did you know that the military teaches some interrogators an entirely artificial language (not Esperanto) so they can talk to each other openly while questioning someone, but the detainee has no idea of what they're saying Gladys told me it's a strange, alien-sounding language and speaking it actually contributes to the fear of detainees because it sounds so weird. You need a special security clearance to learn it and you can't even use it outside of certain interrogations (she wasn't allowed to speak it to me so I could hear it).
                          I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                          Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

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                          • #43
                            Paul, check the FETs (Female Engagement Teams). That's what the Lioness Teams are called now. And JSOC (according to Strategypage) has gotten in on this-they were borrowing women from other units to handle interactions with local females-and those units didn't like that because they needed some women for the same purpose. JSOC is recruiting women for their FETs-and the training course is similar to SOF-lots of physical training, shooting, tactical training, along with the necessary work on local customs, religion, mannerisms, etc. The attrition rate is about 50%, according to the strategypage article.
                            Treat everyone you meet with kindness and respect, but always have a plan to kill them.

                            Old USMC Adage

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by natehale1971 View Post
                              Brad Thor's "Athena Project" is a good read... it's about an extremely topsecret fourth squadron of delta force that is made up of all female operations teams. The storyline in the first book of the series ("The Athena Project" deals with things dealing with matter transporters that the Nazi's had been doing getting into the hands of bad guys) shows the kinds of jobs women in special ops are perfect to carry out, and gives a long list of all the reasons for such team using all women, and touches on some of the downsides as well. If i could loan it out on knidle i'd be willing to loan it so everyone could get a chance to read it.

                              I just saw it over at Amazon.com. It definitely looks....interesting. Funny thing, I had a similar idea for a story I'm writing, except that the women each have different psionic talents in addition to their training that they use to deal with, how shall we say, unusual threats...

                              As you can guess my interests and writing tend to veer a bit more toward the weird.

                              I might check it out though. How many books are there about Athena Project, and do you have to read any of Thor's other novels to understand what's going on
                              "The use of force is always an answer to problems. Whether or not it's a satisfactory answer depends on a number of things, not least the personality of the person making the determination. Force isn't an attractive answer, though. I would not be true to myself or to the people I served with in 1970 if I did not make that realization clear."
                              — David Drake

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Matt Wiser View Post
                                Paul, check the FETs (Female Engagement Teams). That's what the Lioness Teams are called now. And JSOC (according to Strategypage) has gotten in on this-they were borrowing women from other units to handle interactions with local females-and those units didn't like that because they needed some women for the same purpose. JSOC is recruiting women for their FETs-and the training course is similar to SOF-lots of physical training, shooting, tactical training, along with the necessary work on local customs, religion, mannerisms, etc. The attrition rate is about 50%, according to the strategypage article.
                                Interesting. Always take what you read with a grain of salt, but still, if it were true (or partly true), it would certainly make sense.

                                How long has the rumor been going around about Delta's "funny platoon", and has any other rumors ever come out of that
                                "The use of force is always an answer to problems. Whether or not it's a satisfactory answer depends on a number of things, not least the personality of the person making the determination. Force isn't an attractive answer, though. I would not be true to myself or to the people I served with in 1970 if I did not make that realization clear."
                                — David Drake

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