On this day 25 years ago (Commentary Thread)

[Homer]

Some interesting things can start to happen when you combine guard units into composite divisional battalions and squadrons. Depending on the lineage of the original troops/companies/batteries you could have a unit whose antecedent subunits had squared off against each other. Itd be water under the bridge, but would definitely be a touch of color.

[shrike6]

I have the 36th ID using the "T Patch"; when the 36th Brigade is rolled into the 46th ID (where I put them as I shuffled brigades to account for the 29th ID existing) I have them swapping to the 46th Division patch. I figure that to build the new divisional identities when the formerly independent brigades are thrust into divisions together that the brigade patches go; this also helps break down intra-unit barriers in the new composite battalions (cavalry, engineer, CEWI) that are formed. And yes, Joe is going to bitch about it. It's his right!

Moot point but in case you needed one the 36th Brigade was authorized a different patch in the early 70s.Of course there was no 36th at that time and the 71st wore the T patch then.

[pmulcahy11b]

I'm not sure where you put the 36TD t2K-wise, but one should remember that in T2K-terms, what is now 36ID was 49ID T2K-wise.

[pmulcahy11b]

I'm not sure where you put the 36ID t2K-wise, but one should remember that in T2K-terms, what is now 36ID was 49AD T2K-wise.

[shrike6]

I'm not sure where you put the 36ID t2K-wise, but one should remember that in T2K-terms, what is now 36ID was 49AD T2K-wise.

its hard to say Paul. Lineage wise its kind of a mess. One could make a good case that the 36th, 46th etc. IDs in T2K would not contain the lineage of Divisions that held those designation before like today's IRL 134th Inf Reg has no ties to the WWII 134th Inf Reg.. Basically making them new blank slate divisions with no history. So the lineage of those Division would still reside in the their child Separate Brigade. 46th ID lineage held in 46/38ID, etc. Not that lineage really matters in T2Kbut as an academic practice its interesting.

[chico20854]

May 24, 1997

The Polish 6th Air Assault Division arrives in Czestochowa.

The lead elements of Panzergruppe Oberdorff begin Operation Rampart, advancing from Wroclaw to Olesnica and then to Namyslow. From Namyslow they will push on to Olesno via Kluczbork.

Unofficially,

The Freedom-class cargo ship Pittsburgh Freedom is delivered in Beaumont, Texas and the Richmond Freedom is delivered in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The container-barge carrier Chengchow Carrier is delivered in Mobile, Alabama.

A patrol from the MP company guarding the Bedford, Pennsylvania POW camp (now with three prisoners present), led by the company commander, detains three local teenagers on suspicion of spying for the USSR.

The American aerial barrage on North Korea continues, with the first night of coordinated US and ROK efforts to beat back North Korean air defenses in the rear area behind the front line. American aircraft carriers launch their aircraft from the Yellow Sea, exploiting the corridor blasted open leading to Pyongyang before turning south to strike North Korean anti-aircraft missile and gun sites. B-52s of the 320th Bomb Wing fly far overhead, blanketing vast acreage with unguided high explosive bombs to eliminate small- and medium-caliber gun positions, while F-111s of the 27th Tactical Fighter Wing strike command and control and communications facilities with precision guided bombs. USAF and ROKAF fighter-bombers ride escort to the bombers and stand ready to engage any North Korean fighters that may emerge from their underground hangars. As the fighters return to friendly lines, 8th Army field artillery fires a additional volleys to suppress the defenses. The mission is largely successful, but the fighter-bomber forces suffer nearly a dozen losses to the vast numbers of anti-aircraft guns and one F-16 struck by a stray 155mm artillery round when the pilot, nursing a wounded bird, crossed the demarcation line into the active artillery zone.

The Polish 4th Army, with three mechanized and one armored divisions, counterattacks against the US 2nd Armored Division, advancing southwest out of the Tuchol Forest surrounding Chojnice. The American division is pursuing fleeing Polish troops into the area and is isolated from the rest of the corps. (The 1st ID is on the other side of the forest and 1st Cavalry is farther west and to the rear). The Polish commander has set up a trap for the American division, which is soon in contact all along its northern and eastern perimeter. The American Abrams are able to hold off the attacking lines of Polish tanks, while the artillery battalions report that they will be able to keep the guns going, but that the daily resupply convoy has been halted by a series of ambushes to the west and that there is only 12 hours of reserve ammunition on hand.

In central Poland, the 1st Guards Tank Army throws its last reserve formation, the 734th Independent Tank Regiment, into the gap between it and the 4th Guards Tank Army to its north, while the 11th Guards Army moves west from the Warsaw area to help halt the drive of the advancing US V and British II Corps.

American Green Berets withdraw from the area around the Saami village of Lovozero on the Kola Peninsula. They continue to train Saami nationalists in Norway, and operate throughout the Kola using a network of safehouses operated by sympathetic Saami, highly paid dissenters and criminals (often the same) and abandoned structures, in an ongoing cat and mouse game against Soviet internal troops.

Naval base workers begin minor repairs to the Sierra II-class nuclear submarine K-336 in Gremikha on the far eastern part of the Kola Peninsula.

Danube Front, composed of Soviet and Hungarian units attacking Romania from Hungary, and Southern Front (Pact forces in Bulgaria) begin preparatory fires for an upcoming coordinated attack on Romanian, Jugoslav and Turkish forces in the Balkans.

XVIII Airborne Corps begins ferrying the guns of the 434th Field Artillery Brigade (US Army Reserve) across the Persian Gulf into Iran, reinforcing the 24th Infantry Division.

The Air Detachment of Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 58 arrive on Diego Garcia aboard a trio of Air Force transports to begin restoring the base to a suitable level of operating capability. A P-3 of VP-4 locates the Buliny nearly 550 nm to the southeast and orbits out of SAM range. When it runs low on fuel it is replaced by another aircraft from the squadron, and after nearly six hours a B-52G of the 65th Bomb Squadron arrives on the scene, firing four AGM-142 Have Nap missiles at the Soviet destroyer, ending its long raid across the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.

The detachment from the MVD 16th Convoy Brigade which dropped off 45 prisoners for "front parole" receives a contingent of 75 NATO enlisted prisoners for transfer to the MVD's vast camp system. (The MVD's camps have two populations intermixed - Soviet criminals (including political prisoners of all stripes, from ethnic nationalists to prisoners of conscience) and Prisoners of War captured on the various battlefields around the world. At this point there are few NATO prisoners, but the camps are already filled with Chinese and Iranian POWs captured over the preceding two years.

[chico20854]

its hard to say Paul. Lineage wise its kind of a mess. One could make a good case that the 36th, 46th etc. IDs in T2K would not contain the lineage of Divisions that held those designation before like today's IRL 134th Inf Reg has no ties to the WWII 134th Inf Reg.. Basically making them new blank slate divisions with no history. So the lineage of those Division would still reside in the their child Separate Brigade. 46th ID lineage held in 46/38ID, etc. Not that lineage really matters in T2Kbut as an academic practice its interesting.

Especially since the lineages of so many of those divisions accompanied the separate brigades that were formed from the remnants of those divisions when they were disbanded. And then there's GDW practice of using some of the division numbers for Corps headquarters, especially in CONUS!

[chico20854]

Some interesting things can start to happen when you combine guard units into composite divisional battalions and squadrons. Depending on the lineage of the original troops/companies/batteries you could have a unit whose antecedent subunits had squared off against each other. Itd be water under the bridge, but would definitely be a touch of color.

I had the (dubious) pleasure of serving in a composite battalion, formed by throwing together an active-duty company, half of one state's national guard battalion (including most of the command staff), a company from another state's guard and random individual replacements, all into new composite companies. Let's just say it took a little while for everyone to settle down and get used to working together as a unit , working out the individual unit pride and attitudes and resentments...

[shrike6]

Especially since the lineages of so many of those divisions accompanied the separate brigades that were formed from the remnants of those divisions when they were disbanded. And then there's GDW practice of using some of the division numbers for Corps headquarters, especially in CONUS!

Yes although with the 36th I'm not sure whether the 36th Bde has the Divisional lineage or the 49th AD has it. I may have dig for that because now I'm curious. I chalk up the whole ARCOM/Corps thing with it being late in the war and nobody giving a bleep about lineage and such at that point but anyway T2K and lineage could be a full thread onto itself and I dont want to go too far off on a tangent on this fine thread.

[pmulcahy11b]

May 24, 1997

:Anxiously waiting for the ADM surprise package...:

[Homer]

I'd argue that unit identity, as against pure lineage, is a huge matter in the T2K world. Anecdotally, some units have immense levels of unit pride- Parachute Regiment, Armored Cavalry Regiments, 1st ID, etc. It stands to reason that this identity, built upon shared experiences prewar and in the war to date, has been one factor enabling units to hold together through nearly two and a half years of broken backed warfare. The patch on a soldier's shoulder is a sign of belonging what has possibly become a surrogate family.

[Raellus]

I'd argue that unit identity, as against pure lineage, is a huge matter in the T2K world. Anecdotally, some units have immense levels of unit pride- Parachute Regiment, Armored Cavalry Regiments, 1st ID, etc. It stands to reason that this identity, built upon shared experiences prewar and in the war to date, has been one factor enabling units to hold together through nearly two and a half years of broken backed warfare. The patch on a soldier's shoulder is a sign of belonging what has possibly become a surrogate family.

Agreed. Not to argue the point, but I think there are a couple of exceptions to this general rule.

The percentage of later war replacements in a given formation might have an adverse impact on unit morale and identity. I think it was in Band of Brothers (the book, at least- but I've seen references to this phenomenon in other firsthand accounts of war as well) that many vets of D-Day decried the degree to which the 101st Airborne division (arguably one of the most prideful in the army, at the time) had "sunk" in quality by early 1945, mostly due to the loss of vets and the influx of green replacements. A lot of that shared experience you mentioned was lost as paratroopers who'd been with the unit since formation were killed or wounded. The FNG's either didn't arrive with the same sense of belonging or, in many cases, weren't allowed to feel it by the vets who resented the loss of their close buddies and didn't want to get to know the new guys since inexperienced troops' survival rate tended to be considerably lower.

And then there's the phenomenon of the "unlucky" formation (or ship) that, often unfairly, develops a reputation as being "cursed". This superstition/belief, when widely held by members of a unit, can contribute to its continued poor performance. It can become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

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[pmulcahy11b]

And then there's the phenomenon of the "unlucky" formation (or ship) that, often unfairly, develops a reputation as being "cursed". It's silly, but this belief, when widely held by constituents, can contribute to poor performance. It can become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Yes! Example: HHC, 2/21 INF(M) After I'd been there a bit, I realized that this was a unit that turned good soldiers. I was actually glad that I badly broke my ankle, that it would be a 9-month recovery, and they sent me to motor pool to do paperwork and other things (I was a TAMMS clerk, a job that was made obsolete by computers after I left Ft Stewart). And the motor officer wouldn't let me go even after I healed. I had found a place in that unit where I could excel.

[Spartan-117]

It's been said before, but I, like many others, continue to enjoy these daily posts. As someone with a deep and abiding interest in cold war submarine simulations and a former Harpoon player, I especially appreciate 'the War at Sea' aspect; something cannon seems to deal with only tangentially.

[chico20854]

May 25, 1997

The city fathers of Brzeg, Poland surrender the city to NATO, welcoming the NATO troops with the traditional bread and salt.

Unofficially,

In a ceremony at Fort Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania, the 13th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Light) is formed as part of the Armys expansion to meet the demands of global conventional war. Troops are assigned from the weekly graduates of the 78th Training Division, also located at the post, as well as convalescent NCOs and officers and individual recalled reservists. The regiment is organized as a light regiment to take advantage of the increasing numbers of LAV-25-based vehicles being produced by the conversion of civilian truck plants to war production. While a full set of equipment is to be issued to the regiment upon arrival in theater, one squadron of LAVs is issued for training purposes, while the air squadron uses requisitioned civilian helicopters for training.

Article 15 disciplinary proceedings are started against the junior members of "5th Squad" at Fort Lee, Virginia. They are accused of various minor offenses regarding conduct and alcohol abuse. The staff sergeant, a drill instructor at the base, and seven privates are charged with more serious crimes and court martial trials are begun. The lieutenant is subject to a different proceeding - the investigation concludes that she was invited to the party by her cousin, one of the privates, and that she had been blackmailed by "5th Squad" into attending. She is transferred to the Dugway Proving Ground in Utah immediately to serve in a staff position there, her quartermaster basic officer training unfinished.

The Bedford County, Pennsylvania sheriff secures the release of the three local teens detained by the MPs the day before; his deputies report that the kids were visiting a known hangout spot to drink some illegal beers and were roughed up by the MP commander.

In Northern Poland, the arrival of the veteran Soviet 20th Tank Division to the divisions south places the 2nd Armoreds entire position at risk. The division commander calls in support from corps headquarters, which dispatches the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment to catch the 20th Tank on its flank. Quicker to arrive, however, is the combined attack helicopter force of the entire III US Corps. Under the command of the 21st Air Cavalry Combat Brigade, attack helicopter battalions of each of III US Corps divisions, combined with 3rd ACRs Air Cavalry Squadron and the 21st ACCBs component battalions, a force of over 70 Apache and Cobras, fly into the 20th's attacking regiments. In between waves of helicopters, III US Corps 75th and 212th Field Artillery Brigades use their howitzers to deploy FASCAM minefields in front of the advancing tank regiments, and then use MLRS rocket systems to attack the halted or slowed armor with Assault Breaker anti-tank smart munitions (expending the corps entire supply). NATO tactical aircraft are also called in to break up the Pact counterattack, but relatively few are available (many are trying to slow the movement of 11th Guards Army to the south). The deployment of all the US Armys tools developed to stop a Soviet breakthrough in the Fulda Gap prove to be successful in halting the Pact counterattack, but the at great cost to the 2nd Armored - nearly 30 percent losses.

To the south, the US 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, screening ahead of V Corps, locates the 734th Independent Tank Regiment and quickly determines that the Soviet units is deployed in hasty defensive positions outside Konin, its flanks largely open. The Cavalry closes with the Soviet tankers, losing some Bradleys and tanks to the Soviet T-90s but allowing the 2nd Brigade, 3rd Armored Division to pass by the Soviet force before swinging north and cutting it off. The armored division's troops overrun the regiment's support battalion and headquarters before moving west into the battalion rear areas; within two hours the Soviet regiment has been destroyed, crushed between American tanks and fighting vehicles from both front and rear.

The US 10th Mountain Division arrives in temporary staging camps in the area around Karasok on the Norwegian-Finnish border. While still understrength, the veteran division is well rested and relatively fresh. Upon arrival, the division continues its training program, integrating the first new recruits from the vastly expanded US Army training system. (Most prior replacement troops have been inactive reservists, former infantrymen recalled from civilian life and given a quick refresher before being shipped to the front).

The Canadian submarine Ojibwa sinks the Soviet Victor I-class SSN K-460 in the Strait of Belle Isle (between Labrador and Newfoundland).

Arriving virtually in the wake of Convoy 140, ships of Convoy 142 arrive at various North Sea ports in the Netherlands and Germany. The arrival of the ships overloads some of the ports, forcing vessels to wait at anchor for a berth. Some ships wait days before starting to discharge their urgently needed cargos of ammunition, replacement vehicles and supplies.

Civilian airliners and USAF C-141 transports of the 446th Military Airlift Wing transport the troops (and some high priority cargo) of the 48th Infantry Brigade (Georgia National Guard) from Hunter Army Airfield, Georgia and Charleston AFB, South Carolina to airfields in eastern Saudi Arabia.

An uprising starts among the troops of the 70th (my 122nd Guards) Motor-Rifle Division in Khabarovsk, Siberia following rumors that the division, decimated in the 1995-6 campaign and never rebuilt, will be transferred back to the front in the next few days.