Grappling and melee

[James Langham]

A quick and dirty stab at a system. Characters taking unarmed combat skill have the OPTION to take a combat form that modifies their effective skill. E.G.

Boxing: +2 punching +1 grappling -2 kicking
Judo/Jui Jitsiu: +2 grappling -1 kicking
Karate: +1 kicking +1 punching -1grappling


Generally the character should end up +1 better off but reduced in at least 1 area.

Not sure how to handle characters who take more than one martial art, maybe making each a cascade skill

It's simple and takes very little messing around with the rules. Hopefully just enough chrome without much book-keeping.

[B.T.]

Unarmed Melee Damage

@ James:
I think, this is an interesting way to go. Maybe I'll try this in my group.

The thing, that I think is really not that good in the T2k rules (I'm playing Ver2.2!), is the damage. I think, the damage should be increased, but I'm uncertain. Maybe:
Every punch, etc makes 1d6 damage, the "Unarmed Combat Damage" is a bonus. I'm to lazy, to go for my rules right now, but IIRC, the damage of a punch or a kick (Not a leaping kick!) is the same. If that's true, the damage of a kick should be higher than the damage of a punch.

Hm ...

[Legbreaker]

And the average 9mm pistol does 1D6 also... Doesn't that make a punch somewhat overpowered

[Targan]

Other than coup-de-gras type situations, can a single shot from a 9mm actually kill you in any of the original 3 versions of T2K

[Adm.Lee]

Other than coup-de-gras type situations, can a single shot from a 9mm actually kill you in any of the original 3 versions of T2K

Head shots will get close, and can kill weaker NPCs.

[Targan]

Hmm. I'm well familiar with 1st ed, it's the others I was hazy on. 9mm not being able to kill average PCs with a headshot = poxy system. NPCs being innately easier to kill than PCs = poxy system. IMHO.

[Legbreaker]

In 2.x, anyone with a Constitution stat of 3 or less and it's possible. Head hit capacity is 2x Con. From memory, 1.0 isn't much different.

An Aimed shot which hits either the head or chest has a chance of an instant kill (roll a D10 - dead on equal or less than the number of damage dice of the bullet. ie 1-4 for a 7.62N, 1 for 9mmP).

2.2 also allows for double damage on an Outstanding Success on the hit roll.

While not personally familiar on an intimate level with 9mmP, I've heard anecdotes of VC barely staggering from a 9mmP burst at 50 metres. The follow up double tap 7.62N on the other hand....

[Targan]

In 2.x, anyone with a Constitution stat of 3 or less and it's possible. Head hit capacity is 2x Con. From memory, 1.0 isn't much different.

An Aimed shot which hits either the head or chest has a chance of an instant kill (roll a D10 - dead on equal or less than the number of damage dice of the bullet. ie 1-4 for a 7.62N, 1 for 9mmP).

2.2 also allows for double damage on an Outstanding Success on the hit roll.

Those rules are a bit more reasonable. Thanks for the explanation.

[Legbreaker]

It's worth noting that even a scratch can be potentially fatal - the injured party looses at least their next action, and depending on which version you're using may not be able to act for upwards of 30 seconds in which time their enemy may act with abandon. It only takes a little concussion damage to keep them down too while the attacker moves up for the killing shot/blow.

Therefore it's damn good practice for a PC with a high initiative to carry a grenade launcher, even if they don't have a very good (or even any) skill. Near enough is good enough....

And lets not even talk about infections!

[B.T.]

And the average 9mm pistol does 1D6 also... Doesn't that make a punch somewhat overpowered

You're right! That's one of the reasons, why I'm not happy with the melee damages. The majority of PCs and detailed NPCs did not spent points to increase "Unarmed Melee". So the most PCs do a damage of "1". That's a bit weak. Maybe something like 1d6 / 2 or 1d3 damage, reducing the "Unarmed Combat Damage" and apply as a bonus
I mean, an experienced martial artist can (under certain circumstances) break an opponents arm!

How do you handle this, Leg (Now, off course, if anyone else want's to give his 2 cents, you're welcome!)

[Legbreaker]

How do you handle this, Leg (Now, off course, if anyone else want's to give his 2 cents, you're welcome!)

I shoot the enemy. Eliminate the problem entirely!

My theory is the army issues you with a rifle so you can shoot the enemy way over there.
They issue you a bayonet so you can stab the enemy way over there.
Why let them get close enough for a punch

[B.T.]

My theory is the army issues you with a rifle so you can shoot the enemy way over there.
They issue you a bayonet so you can stab the enemy way over there.
Why let them get close enough for a punch

So it is written, so it shall be done ...

[Legbreaker]

One other option my be to treat unarmed damage as mostly Stun. Perhaps 1/4 is permanent (bruising, cracked ribs, etc) and the rest "disappears" after a suitable period

[weswood]

The rules system I prefer (Top Secret/SI) has 3 types of damage: constitutition damage, for things like poison, bruise damage for things like punchinng, kicking and blunt weapons and wound damage for penetrating and slicing damage.

For example, a typical character has 5 hit points per area- head, left or right chest, abdomen, left/right arm, left/right hand and left/right leg. A baseball bat does 1-6 points wound damage, a 9mmP does 1-6 wound damage.

Hand to hand is determined by the character's skill check roll. The system uses percentile die to determine success/fail. It also gives a hit location and damage for weaponless hand to hand. If a character rolls a 40% in boxing, the "tens" die gives the amount of bruise damage (4 points) in the head (area 0= head). 4 points is lower than the character's total for that area, so he keeps on fighting. If it was 5 or more bruise points to the head, it would be a KO. At twice the amount of hit points, he'd have a cracked skull.

Wound damage supercedes bruise damage. If the character above got out of the fight with 4 bruise points to the head (call it a black eye for fun) and gets into a firefight later and takes 3 points from a firearm (wound damage) the character would have 3 points wound damage and 1 point bruise damage.

Maybe that would help, keep seperate track of wound and bruise damage for the T2K character. Maybe come up with a weaponless combat system with better damage potential.

[WallShadow]

<Delicately avoiding the entire "butt crack problems" and "violating plumbers' things(!)" discussion>

Lots of people who were members of the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) were also in the military _and_ stationed in Europe in the mid to late 1990's. I'm sure their melee skills would give them an advantage with baton/bat/axe/sword/club/spear, and they could teach shield-wall tactics to local ORMO troops for riot control-- mighty handy in the Great Free City of Krackow when the KGB-incited mob rises up in revolt.

I can also see some of them flying their heraldic devices to catch the attention of other SCAdians they might encounter. ("Holy crap! That's Sir Manfred's device painted on that BMP! Hold your fire!") Of course what the locals might think of this, who could tell