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T2013 STAGE III Ballistics Calculation Question

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  • T2013 STAGE III Ballistics Calculation Question

    So,

    I'm going through and statting up some new weapons and ammo. Stuff like the S&W M&P 10 or the LSA TX15. These are using 6.5 Creedmoor or 6 ARC.

    While I could just say that these are equivalent to the 6.5 Grendel, my intellectual curiosity demands that I figure out Stage III ballistics values for them.

    Anyone know how Stage III ballistics are calculated The math doesn't scare me, I just need to understand how the formulas vary in each range band.

  • #2
    So I put a little more thought into this (and applied liberal use of Hornady's online ballistics calculator)...

    Since the Master Ammo Table has .17 HMR but without any Stage III ballistics, I figured I'd start out with that as a test case.

    Knowing that the range bands are:
    Personal (arms length) - I assumed 1 meter
    Gunfighting (7m)
    CQB (7-25m)
    Tight (25-100m)
    Medium (100-200m)
    Open (200-400m)
    Sniping (400-800m)
    Extreme (800-1600m)

    I plugged in the values for the Hornady .17 HMR (17 gr V-Max Varmint Express), and chose max range 1600 yards, interval 25 yards. It generated velocities and kinetic energies every 25 yards (close enough to meters for me).

    The results I got were then plugged into the Reflex ballistics calculator, giving me (assuming the first penetration value rather than the second):

    P 4/x2
    GF 4/x2
    CQB 4/x2
    T 3/x3
    M 3/x3
    O 2/Nil
    S 2/Nil
    E 2/Nil

    The question becomes - do I select the *start* of each range band, the *middle* of each range band, or the *end* of each range band

    The reason I ask is there are some significant differences in V and KE across the range band. For example, for the Tight range band, V = 2377 fps and KE = 213 ft-lbs at 25m, but drops off to 1902 fps and 137 ft-lbs at 100m.

    This results in values of 4/x2 if I use the start of the band (25m), 3/x3 if I use the end of the band (100m) and 4/x3 if I use mid-band (I've been lazy and just assumed a linear decrease in velocity and kinetic energy across the distance the bullet traveled).

    Additionally, do the ranges even make sense (knowing that .17 HMR is intended for small game/varmint hunting). The design guidelines specify Open/Extreme as optimum/maximum ranges for hunting rifles, but I'm thinking a rifle in this caliber is probably Gunfighting/Tight or Gunfighting/Medium.

    **EDIT**

    I'm thinking optimum and Max range for a rifle firing .17HMR is going to be M/O. Plotting velocity and energy vs range, the knee in the curves is around 250 - 300m. Anecdotally, hunters are claiming good shots too 200 yds consistently.
    Last edited by 3catcircus; 11-14-2022, 05:31 AM.

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    • #3
      Here's my first attempt at Stage III Ballistics for a few new calibers of ammo.

      Thoughts
      Attached Files
      Last edited by 3catcircus; 11-18-2022, 10:29 AM. Reason: Fixed attachment

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 3catcircus View Post
        Anyone know how Stage III ballistics are calculated The math doesn't scare me, I just need to understand how the formulas vary in each range band.
        As best I can reconstruct from poorly-annotated spreadsheets... use the following formula to generate the effective (for certain values of "effective") velocity for the range band:

        (Vi + (2 x Vm) + Vo) / 4

        Vi = velocity at inner boundary of range band
        Vm = velocity at midpoint of range band
        Vo = velocity at outer boundary of range band

        Thus, for the Medium range band (100m to 200m), you'd use

        (100m velocity + (2 x 150m velocity) + 200m velocity) / 4

        - C.
        Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996

        Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog.

        It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't.
        - Josh Olson

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        • #5
          Thanks! Seeing this - it makes sense that a weighting factor was applied towards the middle while averaging the velocity across the range band.

          Originally posted by Tegyrius View Post
          As best I can reconstruct from poorly-annotated spreadsheets... use the following formula to generate the effective (for certain values of "effective") velocity for the range band:

          (Vi + (2 x Vm) + Vo) / 4

          Vi = velocity at inner boundary of range band
          Vm = velocity at midpoint of range band
          Vo = velocity at outer boundary of range band

          Thus, for the Medium range band (100m to 200m), you'd use

          (100m velocity + (2 x 150m velocity) + 200m velocity) / 4

          - C.

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