Military Shotguns

[pmulcahy11b]

Yeah, fully auto is loads of fun, but practical is it not!



And that's coming from an ex M60 gunner!

I loved the 60! I can't understand why so many troops complained about it -- it was just the right size for a short trooper like me.

[Legbreaker]

I was the smallest in my section (about 65 kgs / 140 lbs) and you couldn't drag it away from me. There's something just so RIGHT about a belt fed automatic weapon in your hands. :P

That and I got to aways ride with my head out the cargo hatch in the M113, first and last half picket at night, and rarely was assigned to the assault group rather than fire support in an attack.

Ah, the perks of a machinegunner!

Mind you I never had a decent assistant gunner worth anything more than an ammo mule so I got real good at changing barrels fast by myself and carrying out all the various stoppage drills.

[pmulcahy11b]

I was the smallest in my section (about 65 kgs / 140 lbs) and you couldn't drag it away from me. There's something just so RIGHT about a belt fed automatic weapon in your hands. :P

You were about the same size as I was. In the Army, my weight hovered around 145, for 5 feet 8 inches. I was never athletic, just very fit.

[Raellus]

What do you guys think about the HK CAW automatic, mag-fed shotty from the v1.0 small arms guide I'll reserve judgement for now.

[Targan]

What do you guys think about the HK CAW automatic, mag-fed shotty from the v1.0 small arms guide I'll reserve judgement for now.

I love it. I have the full internal schematics for it on my hard drive. Want em

[pmulcahy11b]

What do you guys think about the HK CAW automatic, mag-fed shotty from the v1.0 small arms guide I'll reserve judgement for now.

From what I've read, the problem with the CAWS was not the weapon -- the troops that tested it loved it. The problem was the budget/supply chain; the CAWS uses all-brass shells that are not quite the same size as a 12-Gauge 3" magnum round (for some reason, 2.85 inches comes to mind, but that's probably not right) -- and most of the loads were interesting loads like tungsten flechettes, HE rounds, tungsten squares instead of standard round shot, AP sabots -- rounds that would have required the Pentagon to make a large investment in new ammunition.

[pmulcahy11b]

I love it. I have the full internal schematics for it on my hard drive. Want em

Send it to me. Not only do I want it, I can put it on my site so it's accessible to everyone without you having to individually email it to everyone.

[kato13]

Gamewise I always loved the Pancor Jackhammer



In addition to being a 10 round fully automatic shotgun the magazines could be converted into a improvised antipersonnel mine.

[jester]

Gamewise I always loved the Pancor Jackhammer



In addition to being a 10 round fully automatic shotgun the magazines could be converted into a improvised antipersonnel mine.

I remember that one from an article back in the 80s. It avoided the thing that spelled the doom of must automatic shotguns and really any sustained fire of shotguns. The worry of cookoffs after a long firing session.

The chamber to the weapon was not in the weapon but in the magazine cassette, much like a cylinder on a revolver so the heat would not build up in the chamber and would have time to cool off between firing and reloading. A downside though, the ammo cassettes seemd a little bulky.

But, I did use it in one of my campaigns to good effect. I also used a "Sledgehammer" a pump action 40mm grenade launcher I loved making up my own T2K weapons. And oh yeah I also had a weapons system similiar to the one used in Alliens, using 5.56 as the primary weapon and a integral underbarrel 12 gauge or 20mm pump action grenade launcher.

[Raellus]

the CAWS uses all-brass shells that are not quite the same size as a 12-Gauge 3" magnum round (for some reason, 2.85 inches comes to mind, but that's probably not right) -- and most of the loads were interesting loads like tungsten flechettes, HE rounds, tungsten squares instead of standard round shot, AP sabots -- rounds that would have required the Pentagon to make a large investment in new ammunition.

Hm. Special ammo, huh I'd assumed (usually a mistake ) that it used standard 12-gauge ammo. Special ammo would dry up pretty quickly and would become extremely scarce. By 2000, it sounds like the CAW would only be good for a flashy, expensive club (kind of like the H&K G-11 AR).

I guess in the PAW, a Mossy or Remy would be a much better choice than a fancy automatic shotty.

[jester]

Ah! But brass cassings can be reloaded more than plastic shells, so in T2K you would have the same issues with shotgun ammo as you would with rifle.

[Targan]

Ah! But brass cassings can be reloaded more than plastic shells, so in T2K you would have the same issues with shotgun ammo as you would with rifle.

I was going to write exactly that but decided not to because we've had these sorts of threads so often before. But you are correct. Brass-cased CAWS shells would be easily reloadable I would think. Sorry, I forgot to post the internal schematics for the CAWS. I'll do it tonight.

[Targan]

HK CAWS patent documents file attached.

[Raellus]

Ah! But brass cassings can be reloaded more than plastic shells, so in T2K you would have the same issues with shotgun ammo as you would with rifle.

Good point.

Still, there'd be a lot more plastic shells out there to start with than CAW-only compatible brass ones. Especially in North America, where shotguns are relatively common among the civie population.

But, perhaps the reloadability of the CAW's brass shells would mitigate this starting advantage somewhat.

[pmulcahy11b]

But, perhaps the reloadability of the CAW's brass shells would mitigate this starting advantage somewhat.

I would also guess you could trim them from 3" Magnum brass shells (they are used by some civilian shooters).