Map of CONUS Nuke strikes.

[kato13]

Just a note. Benjamin pointed out that I had targeted the province not the City of Quebec. I have updated the map accordingly.

http://games.juhlin.com/files/nuke_strike_north_america.jpg

[Graebarde]

Another question/comment. The strikes in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming are just the command centers for the missile wings. There are command centers all over the areas, at least ten for each of the wings that would be targets of multiple strikes as well. I grew up in NoDak, half way between the two red dots (Minot AFB to the west and Grand Forks AFB to the east. The nearest silos to home were 40 miles east and about the same to the west. Were war to come at that time in my life, we were going to be well irradiated, the area a radioactive wasteland from the Rockies to the Great Lakes; and from the Platte River to Canada. NoDak was joked as the third largest nuclear power in the world hving well over 300 Minuteman missile silos as well as two SAC bomber wings.

It was interesting to watch the BUFFs do their low level insertion practice, traveling about 400 feet off the surface. Their path for the practice was 12 miles west of where I lived, and over fields where I worked as a field scout, First encounter startled me as I came out of a treeline and there within pistol range is a BUFF passing by. You do NOT hear them until they are over you!

Imagine a farmer working and seeing an enemy bomber sliding semi-silently over your field.

I've also experienced a fighter 'bombing run' while working in the field. A shadow growing over the tractor, look back and up a bit and here's an F4 coming out of the eveing sun. Close enough you could smell the kerosene as he kicked his afterburners. That was just after the Hooligans (NoDak ANG Fighter wing) transitioned to F4.

Lots of interesting memories from the Cold War era in central NoDak.

[Graebarde]

Another question/comment. The strikes in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming are just the command centers for the missile wings.

I note after the fact that Rapid City missed the target list. Strange, since it was Wing HQ for the FIRST Minuteman wing planted and home also for a BOne wing. Oversite

[kato13]

There are tons of potential targets that GDW spared. I am currently working on mapping out the hits from Morrow Project enhanced targeting list. I have 2802 warheads from 582 missiles hitting something like 508 targets. GDW only chose to hit 82 targets meaning less than one in five potential targets was converted to vapor.

As for handling missing strikes, I most probably will have a map tool to allow the user to place their own strikes on a map (probably limited to 26) and see how things look.

Looking back I think this is really funny how I am doing the same things I did 25 years ago but with newer and better technology. Back then I had acetate sheets with burst radii which I would move around several maps I had to see what the potential for devastation was. Now it is all digital but it is still just as fun.

[Fusilier]

There are tons of potential targets that GDW spared.

I guess if they went with total nuke exchange the game wouldn't be what it is. There would be no hope for rebuilding and no point in tackling the missions in the modules. It would less a military RPG and more of a - extend your suffering by X number of weeks.

[Raellus]

I guess if they went with total nuke exchange the game wouldn't be what it is. There would be no hope for rebuilding and no point in tackling the missions in the modules. It would less a military RPG and more of a - extend your suffering by X number of weeks.

There's definitely that.

Also, I think part of the justification for limiting the number of targets in the canon write-up was the avoidance of a general MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) nuclear war by keeping both nuclear powers from intentionally going after too many of their respective enemy's strategic nuclear assets.

It was a slippery slope since some strategic nuclear targets (silos, command and control, airfields for strategic bombers, sub pens, etc.) look like they were targeted. However, it sounds and looks like it was a onesy-twosie sort of tit-for-tat type deal rather than a "let's launch one big crippling attack" sort of thing.

If either side felt they were about to lose all of their nuclear weapons due to enemy strikes, they would have unleashed all of their birds, prompting an equally massive counter-strike. This would have resulted in MAD and not much of a game world to play in/on.

Kato, any chance of putting all of your finalized strike maps up in one thread- maybe as a sticky

[Benjamin]

A couple of years ago at GenCon Indy I talked to a guy who was at the GURPS booth. I can't remember his name off hand, but he said he had conversed with Loren Wiseman. They talked about the nuclear hit list and besides a totally game-world based decision to keep the destruction "limited", there seemed to be a general belief that the early destruction of command and control (i.e. high level executive decision makers) would limit the exchange.

Admittedly, this may be a flawed assumption and the destruction of NECAP is a bit of a stretch, but the creators of 2300AD worked a bit backwards. They knew what kind of RPG they wanted so the finagled the timeline a bit to get there. Frank Chadwick worked for the government doing this same kind of thing for government training simulations.

The Morrow Project too had a game design goal but it was decidedly different from what GDW wanted. Truth be told I had several Morrow supplements but found the premise a bit silly. 150 years in the future but most groups were still using war time vehicles and weapons Also the mutant animals sort of took the realism factor down a bit.

I agree the hit list for T2K is a bit limited. I usually ad a few targets and I usually have a few city-busters thrown in by a late firing Soviet boomer.

Benjamin

[kato13]

Kato, any chance of putting all of your finalized strike maps up in one thread- maybe as a sticky

I may work on a "stuff I've made" thread. I have maps, equipment lists, data sets, etc. Maybe as a sticky or having a prominent position in one of the current sticky threads.

[kato13]

In case anyone is interested in what the strike map for a Morrow Project game might look like I have links to a couple maps in this thread. Other than calculated duds and misses I bet there will be very few complaints about SOVs missing an obvious target.

[Abbott Shaull]

It is interesting that the twin Sault Ste. Marie weren't hit on you target maps. With the Soo Locks and amount of Iron Ore that could be transported through them. Even if it started to with the taking out of Military installation initially, as they went out to take out oil refinaries and the like, the Locks would be on a short list too.

During WWII Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan was home 15,000 soldiers, with Germany and Japan not actually have the ability to attack this location, but it was well guarded. Also German POWs were interned in the UP too. The Bases are gone from here, but I would think if there was a war with Russia/Soviet Union this would be one of the target that the US would try to protect. Fort Brady in the Sault, Radar Hill, Raco Air Field, and Kincheloe Air Force Base as well as the Corps of Engineer Locks, and Sault Coast Guard Base are the handful of military installation that were in the area after WWII and sadly now only the Locks and Coast Guard Base are what remains.

As for Maraquette, would that be the city or the K.I. Sawyer AFB. The reason I ask is that Sawyer is like 20 miles from Maraquette, not that their would be on huge forest fire, and Empire mine would be close too. Maraquette does have a loading dock, but it quite small compared to those in Duluth/Superior area.

[kato13]

The UP of Michigan has a major Morrow mission IIRC. Chicago does as well. Both are conveniently "missed" by canon strikes.

[sic1701]

As far as Air Force bomber and missile bases and Navy airfields and bases not shown to be hit on the target list and map, we might reasonably assume that even though the Soviet Union was still around as a significant geopolitical entity and we didn't have the significant military drawdown we've seen in real-life since the 80s, intelligent force reductions did nonetheless occur in T2K; merging of missions and closing/realignment of bases and such.

[kato13]

As far as Air Force bomber and missile bases and Navy airfields and bases not shown to be hit on the target list and map, we might reasonably assume that even though the Soviet Union was still around as a significant geopolitical entity and we didn't have the significant military drawdown we've seen in real-life since the 80s, intelligent force reductions did nonetheless occur in T2K; merging of missions and closing/realignment of bases and such.

The first round of BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure) occurred in 1988 so that is very reasonable.

[sic1701]

And BRAC might have accelerated somewhat, if the U.S. needed to close and align installations in order to save money or shuffle it around for newer weapons programs in anticipation for a prolonged Cold War. One of the reasons that so many installations were able to be closed in the several BRAC rounds was the fact that the Cold War's end made them not only unnecessary and redundant, but also cost-prohibitive to even maintain in any kind of caretaker status.

[Kilgs]

Does anyone have these files for download I know kato's having filedump issues so was hoping someone else had them available

Send PM for contact info or email to kilgs....AT.... yahoo.