How much?

[pmulcahy11b]

Think about the Paul Doumer Bridge in North Vietnam. I'll grant you, it's not the same in situation or size (2500 feet cantilever construction), only analogous -- but the US repeatedly tried to drop that bridge and succeeded only in 1972 when smart bombs became available -- and then only put it out of service for a year.

I'm just saying -- it's never as easy as one thinks. That old military axiom, "No plan survives first contact."

[Targan]

I like Jester's idea of cutting through the steel support beams with thermite grenades. Most load-bearing points on a bridge like that will be too thick to cut through with det cord (if it was a suspension bridge det cord would be a viable option).

[kato13]

This took 75 lbs or RDX and 350 shaped charges. Kinda beyond the scope of the mission but it is a pretty picture.

[pmulcahy11b]

This took 75 lbs or RDX and 350 shaped charges. Kinda beyond the scope of the mission but it is a pretty picture.

Is that the former Skyway in Tampa

[kato13]

Is that the former Skyway in Tampa

Jamestown Bridge in Rhode Island

[General Pain]

If you ask a combat engineer, the answer will always be "Twice as much..."

Yeah I thought I read that somewhere...do the math and then double it

[General Pain]

Just use a nuclear demolition charge like the US Army did in Black Madonna.

It's the only way to be sure.

I like the cut of your jib

(homer simpson would then answer....what's a jib)

[Cdnwolf]

Sorry I never got back to you guys. Knock at door and a talk with some guys who insisted on shining bright lights in my eyes.

Actually in Niagara Falls watching the sun rise... then doing the tourist thingie... and got me thinking... any nukes on the Hydroelectric plants in Niagara Falls.

[kato13]

Sorry I never got back to you guys. Knock at door and a talk with some guys who insisted on shining bright lights in my eyes.

Actually in Niagara Falls watching the sun rise... then doing the tourist thingie... and got me thinking... any nukes on the Hydroelectric plants in Niagara Falls.

Happened to be placing Canadian units so I was right there.

Closest canon nukes and how they relate to Niagra Falls, New York.

68.1 km ExSE of Hamilton, Canada, 1000 Kt
69.9 km SxSE of Toronto, Canada, 2000 Kt
164.4 km SW of Trenton, Canada, 750 Kt
272.1 km E of Sarnla, Canada, 1750 Kt
336.3 km ExNE of Windsor, Canada, 1000 Kt
350.4 km SxSW of Chalk River, Canada, 500 Kt
360.5 km S of North Bay, Canada, 750 Kt
373.5 km SW of Ottawa, Canada, 1500 Kt
401.9 km ExNE of Toledo, OH, 1750 Kt
474.0 km NW of Marcus Hook, PA, 1500 Kt
476.9 km NW of Philadelphia, PA, 1750 Kt
484.1 km NxNW of Fort Meade, MD, 500 Kt
482.9 km NW of Paulsboro, NJ, 500 Kt
485.7 km NW of Westville, NJ, 500 Kt
484.9 km NW of Linden, NJ, 1250 Kt
486.7 km NW of Delaware City, DE, 750 Kt
490.8 km NW of PerthAmboy, NJ, 1000 Kt
496.0 km NxNW of Arlington, VA, 500 Kt
496.8 km NxNW of Washington, DC, 250 Kt
492.4 km ExNE of Lima, OH, 750 Kt
511.2 km WxSW of Montreal, Canada, 2000 Kt
501.6 km NxNW of Camp David, MD, 500 Kt
510.6 km NxNW of Andrews AFB, MD, 500 Kt
529.6 km NxNW of Quantico, VA, 500 Kt
600.5 km NxNE of Catlettsburg, KY, 750 Kt

Closest canon units.
122.4 km ExSE of West German - 81st Panzer Grenadier Battalion (not a typo was in Canada to Train on TDM)
148.4 km SxSW of Canadian - 1/Toronto Regiment
178.6 km E of Canadian - 3/Regina Rifle Regiment
244.0 km WxSW of Canadian - 3/Toronto Regiment
373.4 km SW of Quebecois - 1/Regiment de Hull
408.2 km SxSE of West German - 53rd Panzer Battalion (not a typo was in Canada to Train on TDM)
486.5 km NxNW of US - 228th Infantry Brigade
505.3 km NW of US - 78th Infantry Division
564.8 km SE of British - 1/The Cheshire Regiment (not a typo was in Canada to Train on TDM)
574.3 km S of Quebecois - 1/Fusiiiers du St Laurent
610.5 km W of US - 43rd Military Police Brigade
624.8 km WxSW of Canadian - 1/Lake Superior Scottish Regiment
630.7 km WxSW of Quebecois - 1/Regiment du Saguenay
744.1 km WxSW of Quebecois - 1/Front de Liberation du Quebec
750.8 km S of Quebecois - 1/Regiment de la Chaudiere
884.9 km N of US - 184th Infantry Brigade
966.2 km WxSW of Canadian - 1/Royal New Brunswick Regiment
986.5 km ExSE of Canadian - 2/Toronto Regiment
1011.6 km WxSW of Canadian - 3/Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
1035.0 km WxSW of Canadian - 2/Queen's Own Rifles of Canada
1016.9 km N of US - 30th Engineer Brigade (Combat)
1093.8 km NE of US - 194th Armored Brigade
1154.3 km E of US - 84th Infantry Division (Light)

[Targan]

Actually in Niagara Falls watching the sun rise... then doing the tourist thingie... and got me thinking... any nukes on the Hydroelectric plants in Niagara Falls.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember reading somewhere that by 2001 one of the Niagra plants was generating power again and the maintenance requirements and power generated were being equally shared by MilGov and one of the Canadian regional governments.

I think that is pretty good evidence that it wasn't nuked.

[kato13]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember reading somewhere that by 2001 one of the Niagra plants was generating power again and the maintenance requirements and power generated were being equally shared by MilGov and one of the Canadian regional governments.

I think that is pretty good evidence that it wasn't nuked.

Give that man a prize. The following is from "Pennsylvania Crude"

Militia forces from Niagara Falls occupied and partially repaired the hydroelectric plant, providing the area with a trickle of semireliable power. The remnants of industries in Utica and Syracuse provided some material goods. The fields of western New York produced enough food to support the reduced population.

The year 2000 saw a decline in the region's fortune as more refugees sought entrance and then needed to be turned away. Western New York was forced to share the hydroelectric plant with the new Canadian government, reducing the power available

[General Pain]

The bridge would be the only remaining one crossing the Danube river and the only supply route for the Russian armies attacking Vienna - gone as in no chance in hell of replacing it. So basically is a suicide mission .... but nothing the characters can't handle!!

Ahhh...suicide missions...that's HQs GM-Style indeed.....strangly I can only remember one suicide in all my years of playing.

(the pc lost his arm....and asked for a gun on the operating table...bang!! - result: shocked players around the table)

[m47dragon]

If you ask a combat engineer, the answer will always be "Twice as much..."

Commonly referred to as the "Lotsa" method...as in "lotsa C4."

A series of cratering charges would make it impassable. Are you looking to delay forces, or cause permanent damage Beware of "burning too many bridges behind you."

[Legbreaker]

The best result that could be hoped for against this particular bridge by an SF force would be to damage it beyond use. The team is simply unable to carry enough explosives to destroy the structure.
Cratering the roadway/decking is likely to be the best approach however some minor structural damage might be possible if detailed plans of the bridge were available before time and engineers were able to assess the best possible locations for the limited charges.

A team of say ten men is still likely to only inflict enough damage to render the bridge impassable for maybe a few days. This might however be enough time for NATO to prepare a new defensive line or inflict significant damage by artillery and airstrikes.

Sometimes delay is all that's needed....

[Cdnwolf]

Thanks all for the non-realistic -this is only a game - we aren't playing to do anything... you can remove the bug from my phones - information.