Energy Alternatives

[welsh]

One of my gripes with the Morrow Project is Fusion Power. It just seems too easy, and worse, the possibility that all our vehicles run on fusion power- which has not become widely used at the time of the apocalypse- makes me feel this is a huge cop out. The costs of energy should be one of the key challenges of this game- how to get it, how to preserve it, how to produce it and protecting it. Those with energy in abundance have a serious competitive advantage against those who don't. The desire to steal that energy will also be huge.

There has got to be a better and more realistic way to do energy. Twilight 2000 used alcohol driven vehicles- which was fine except that you could only move in short bursts followed by a period when you had to stop and create more fuel. As I recall, in the Twilight 2000 game, it is during a refueling period that your NATO unit gets the smackdown from the Warsaw Pact.

These days we have cheaper solar panels and electric/battery cars.

The challenge for the players should include some struggle to create the energy necessary to achieve their goals.

One way of overcoming some of these issues might be to have some sort of power station that generates electricity so as to fuel the batteries that fuel the cars. Fusion powered vehicles seems a big jump, electrical battery vehicles seems more reasonable.

I realize this is messing with a huge part of the canon of the game, but this has always been an aspect of the game which I thought to be problematic.

Your thoughts

[kato13]

I have the smallest fusion plant be 4 tons.

Vehicles run on multifuel/electric power plants.

Even with no fuel a vehicle can run in batteries charged by transferred electrical power from any source including a Morrow Fusion Plant. There is a plant in the Bolt Hole, in their nesting cache (where it is transportable on a 5 ton truck) and as part of Morrow Logistical teams. Any one of which could be unavailable after 150 years forcing them to use alternate methods (solor, generators, etc).

Fuel can also be brewed ala T2k or made ala biodiesel

I do allow morrow teams to brew ethanol from cellulose via hybrid yeast.

I have some kit information for both modern stills and a biodiesel production if anyone is interested.

[RandyT0001]

Biodiesel
or
Vegetable oil fuels

These two seem to me to be the best alternatives to gasoline. If the MP vehicles have multi-fuel engines installed theses fuels have good energy content per gallon and are relatively easy to make. Many farms in the late 20th century and early 21st century have installed their own biodiesel plants to supplement the diesel they have to buy to run farm equipment.

[nuke11]

The main reason fusion was brought into the game for vehicles was the original designers didn't want the game to turn into a hunt for fuel. Look at the games from that period and the players are hunting for stuff in most cases.

It certainly was an interestingly bad idea, but as a plot device it does help the players become freer to explorer the new wilderness.

If there is some sort of fuel alternative that can stand storage for 150+ years, I would certainly like to know.

[welsh]

Hey Nuke- Can see how that becomes the major problem. But if the story is one of simply searching for fuel- that's a problem. But if it also require the making of fuel- that might make for a different story. Rebuilding an energy grid could be the broader overarching goal of an MP group or a recurring issue in the rebuilding process. New solar, wind or even biodiesel/ vegetable oil mixtures could become key issues as the game progresses, even if you rely on fusion packs early. Refiring a college's nuclear reactor (I think a few still have them) could be a game goal.

Randy- thanks for the thoughts on biodiesel and vegetable fuels.

Kato- I am kind of with you on this and keeping the ease of fusion to a minimum.

[stormlion1]

I think the Fusion Power aspect has been addressed in the 4th edition by going from a twenty year power supply to a 18 month power supply before needing to be refueled. The Project vehicles are only good for a year and a half now and there is little project support around so those vehicles will eventually run out of fuel and the Teams need to search for a new mode of locomotion. The fun part is finding a old Internal Combustion Engine would be a viable alternative but it would count on where they are and the conditions. One wouldn't survive 150 years in a wet climate but there would be ones to find in a cool dry one. That or catch some horses or start riding bikes everywhere or actually go and dig up a regional supply base or possibly a supply cache.

[ArmySGT.]

I don't understand the dislike for fusion powered vehicles. In an interview with Kevin Dockery, questions were asked about the original play tests. Kevin's response was the game turned into a quest for fuel, meaning that despite whatever the PD planned the Team spent more time looking for fuel than the mission objectives.

I leave it along with the 20 year supply. I limit the out put in two ways. One the wattage output and two the power points that can connect to the reactor.

So there is two external 240 volt plugs, four 110 external volt plugs, and two internal 110 volt plugs. The output is limited to that of tactical 40KW genset.

The fusion powered vehicle is one of the advantages or tools in the tool bag for a Morrow Team out there on their own in the aftermath. The fusion power / electric motor is one thing that frees them up from a broken infrastructure and using a resource better suited to rebuilding a broken utility system.

[mmartin798]

I too like the fusion power. But doing the math and coming up with the need for about 18 liters of compressed deuterium to supply a reactor for 18 months of full power output, I found the 20 years to be a bit on the high side. That is why I end up with about 3 years in my game. That 18 liters at about 30% duty cycle would last that long and give more internal space for other equipment from the smaller fuel tank. Plus as I postulated in another thread, this makes the tank able to be the size of a scuba tank. In field refueling would be only slightly more complicated than swapping an LP tank.

Also don't forget how big a target gets painted on the team once it is known they have abundant power in that armored car.

[kato13]

I don't understand the dislike for fusion powered vehicles.

I like fusion to be part of the game as well, but the physics of a fusion generator small enough to fit on a dune buggy struck me as a 100+ year advance in many technologies.

As mentioned in the other fusion thread, you have issues with shielding, heat transfer, waste products, fuel, etc.

Just as if any of us went back to 100 AD (in Europe) we could probably make gunpowder and some sort of projectile weapons, but we could not move materials technology forward fast-enough that we could make an H&K G-11. There are just too many dependent technologies. Even if we took one back for analysis or copying it just could not be done.

That is why I put fusion in a larger package. It represents the projects best attempts to reproduce something Bruce either stole or knew the functional parameters for, but does not match it in terms of size or efficiency.

[kato13]

If there is some sort of fuel alternative that can stand storage for 150+ years, I would certainly like to know.

Alcohol, properly stored, would survive. It does not give you the same power per liter as gas, but it would survive storage much better.

T2k puts the energy output at about 33% for ethanol, but with a engine built with multifuel usage in mind it is about twice that. Couple that with effecient batteries, energy return systems and an electric drive system and you can get greater range than current vehicles using the same volume of gas.

[ArmySGT.]

That is why I put fusion in a larger package. It represents the projects best attempts to reproduce something Bruce either stole or knew the functional parameters for, but does not match it in terms of size or efficiency.

Per Canon, Bruce carried one back from the fusion. Thus reverse engineering took place to make many, many more. Bruce also appears in other games by Tucholka and Sadler so he can traverse dimension too.

[stormlion1]

I always figured the Fusion Power Source sat inside the where the original fuel tank had been located and while small, the rest of the space was filled in with shielding and other things needed to keep it safe. Refueling was as simple as plugging it in somewhere the job would be done. I also figured this also worked as a bit of a leash as well, a team going rogue had a fuel based leash meaning there gear would run out and the threat of a rogue team evaporates. The same for any vehicles captured by Krell or others. They can capture equipment but eventually its a unusable piece of hardware without power.

[mmartin798]

I also figured this also worked as a bit of a leash as well, a team going rogue had a fuel based leash meaning there gear would run out and the threat of a rogue team evaporates.

Rogue Morrow teams are smart. They would realize that happy fun time stops with no readily available energy. So they build some: wind farms, bio-deisel, etc. The reactor fuel will run out, but it is more a timer than a leash.

[stormlion1]

Very true, but all those don't compare to fusion and converting a fusion powered vehicle to a bio-diesel won't be all that easy. At least not without a really good garage. Something there isn't a whole lot of 150 years after the bombs.

[mmartin798]

Converting an MP fusion vehicle to a different power plant would be difficult. But why would they bother They have more irregulars that they have trained up and equipped. These need transport and support as well. Easier to take and strip the MP vehicle and use the armor plates to selectively reinforce other vehicles. Sure keeping the LAV-300/V-150/Ranger intact might be a better vehicle, but it is only one. A F-350 with angled plates to allow air flow into the radiator but stop most rounds, a flip down glass plate to cover the driver and passenger and allow some visibility to drive it and an armored plate attached to the LMG mount to protect the gunner can be repeated 3 or 4 times with relative ease. Again, rogue Morrow teams are smart, educated, have engineering skills and could put together some technicals easier than even just trying to find an engine like an 8.3L Cummings diesel.