Prime Base

[mikeo80]

Ah, but the Atlantis Project is about rebuilding Europe. The UK makes sense except that it is sure to get pasted in a Nuclear exchange. Canada is to far out of position.

IIRC, Atlantis was concerned with rebuilding the world, not just Europe.

If I am correct, then I could see several small PB's available to co-ordinate.

One in Switzerland (Europe) ( I do not know about this one. Switzerland might have survived, but the rest of Europe will glow in the dark for the next 1000 years.)

One in Congo (Africa)

One in Nepal (Main Land Asia) (Same problem as Switserland)

One in Chile (South America)

One of the small islands of Philipenes, or Indonesia for that corner of the world.

I would think that Middle East/North Africa is still glowing in the dark. Likewise India/Pakistan, South Africa and surrounds.

Russia, China, Europe, Japan, Korea, pretty much WASTED.

Australia, New Zealand, etc might have survived. Major cities are toast, but coast and interior might be ok.

South America could end up being the next Super Power. No real strategic targets, good agriculture areas esp. Venezuela, Argentina, and Brazil. Some Oil production, some iron, coal etc for industries. They could just have enough to make it.

Northern Canada with all of its' raw materials should still be there.

Central Africa probably survived, however the tribal warfare would have devistated any hope of rebuilding.

My $0.02

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

Looking over the choices, then the best place to plant Atlantis is South America, low-priority nuclear targets and a tech/pop base to use to rebuild the rest of the world.

[ArmySGT.]

The Morrow Project was supposed to wake up three to five years after the nuclear exchange and the Atlantis Project was slated for 75 years later. Presumably to get support from a reforming North America.

I would place it in North Africa (all low priority targets widely dispersed), Southern Spain, South of France, or an Aegean Island.

The Aegean Island fits the most, mythological Atlantis was an island, and this would be the easiest to conceal construction and other operations prior to WW3.

[dragoon500ly]

Drawbacks to the island placement, is that you will have to have some kind of sea-borne capability and, unless the island is large enough to support an air strip, any aviation assets would be restricted to helicopter.

Spain may be a better choice than the south of France, but thinking over it, I'm sticking to a South America location. Looking over the various websites, it appears likely that SA would not receive a large number of nukes, giving a better chance of some kind of surviving industrial capability as well as a larger population base. Assets that the Atlantis Project could use to good effect.

[dragoon500ly]

Does anybody have any opinions on the 4-cylinder Prime vs. the canon Prime

[mikeo80]

Does anybody have any opinions on the 4-cylinder Prime vs. the canon Prime

I have no real problem one way or another. I can see the need for more people to man the various posts at PB. Then you need more living space. As we have said here, there are some things that are missing from PB that should have been there. There are some things at PB that should NOT have been there. (Esp U-235 or PU-239 in the basement)

One way I could see this happening....

The extra cylinder (s) are there...Need a button pushed from the Commander of PB...,.OPEN SESAME!!!!

Could also be more storage Could be more teams in Deep Sleep I mean come on, the only external team is Phoenix

BTW, I DO NOT believe in the Phoenix team concept...They are not there in MY version of PB. A couple of Recon Teams, a MARS team and a Science team are all resonable IMHO.

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

Me too. I never cared for the Pheonix Team concept.

Their really in the Module so the PD can cut the Players loose again and have someone to run Prime Base (NPCs).

I favor a Command Staff in cryo sleep. Then you do have NPCs to take over and run Prime Base and the Players can get out of house keeping and back to adventuring.

I think of the Canon Prime Base Commander and his staff as the Garrison or Caretaker staff. The equivalent of a Colonel. That one level of Prime Base has the Staff that was meant to run the Project. There is a Four Star equivalent with a few two and one star department heads as well as Staff Specialists (Junior Officers and NCOs) in sleep waiting to start the Project.

[dragoon500ly]

I have no real problem one way or another. I can see the need for more people to man the various posts at PB. Then you need more living space. As we have said here, there are some things that are missing from PB that should have been there. There are some things at PB that should NOT have been there. (Esp U-235 or PU-239 in the basement)

One way I could see this happening....

The extra cylinder (s) are there...Need a button pushed from the Commander of PB...,.OPEN SESAME!!!!

Could also be more storage Could be more teams in Deep Sleep I mean come on, the only external team is Phoenix

BTW, I DO NOT believe in the Phoenix team concept...They are not there in MY version of PB. A couple of Recon Teams, a MARS team and a Science team are all resonable IMHO.

My $0.02

Mike

Got to agree about the radioactive sludge...I'd rather have a facility to recharge the fusion engines.

The good thing about the fourth cylinder is that it would give you extra teams, a MARS team for certain, 5-6 Recon Teams just to help control/patrol the local area. Another farm, extra storage for critical items (all though I simply add a short tunnel extension off the mission annex) could go into the extra cylinder. Hmmmm, ever seen a map of the Malinta tunnels on Corrigador Might even be a better idea than the one long tunnel concept.

Then there is Phoenix....

I'm of two minds about Phoenix. From one point of view, they make sense, a final protection of the Project or a means of "controlling" a rogue team. But isn't that part of the duties of a MARS Team But Phoenix always was opitional...your mileage may vary.

[mikeo80]

The good thing about the fourth cylinder is that it would give you extra teams, a MARS team for certain, 5-6 Recon Teams just to help control/patrol the local area. Another farm, extra storage for critical items (all though I simply add a short tunnel extension off the mission annex) could go into the extra cylinder. Hmmmm, ever seen a map of the Malinta tunnels on Corrigador Might even be a better idea than the one long tunnel concept.

Now that I think about it, a larger force is a better idea than my force structure. I only had 2 Recon Teams. THIS IS PRIME BASE!!! I agree that 5-6 Recon just to keep the neighborhood safe. The people who staff PB have a LOT of work to do. They do not need to worry about some scruffy ingrate who might have a grudge doing something STUPID.

Also, I would not have set up the village so close to Prime. Yes there was some water available. But if I were the commander of PB, I do not want any trouble on my doorstep!!!! Yes the directives of TMP say to help others. No problem. Just do not help them HERE!! Move them 10-20 klicks elsewhere. I am sure you can find water in other places.

Also, once the teams release, I would think no return to PB. No back track possible, no bio/chem/nuclear contamination to deal with. With a 5-6 Recon team force, you can send a LOT of duce and a halves with resupply as needed to any one in need.

Also, don't you find it interesting that in the canon, there is NO mention of the doctors in PB using U.A. to try and stop the bio I mean, as soon as you suspect something, out come the Bio-Beds, and you start an assembly line to try to innoculate as many as possible in as short a time as possible.

Well, enough of me on a soap box today.

My $0.02

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

I know I'm going to get flamed....

But IMO, the weakest part of Prime Base was the decision to open the base up to aid local survivors, not to mention the decision to build a colony.

Yes, I am well aware of Morrow Project General Order Number One...but the chief responsibility of Prime Base was to activate and manage the Morrow Project, that job almost certainly demands that Prime Base has to remain sealed off and ignore local survivors.

Cold, yes, but Prime had the ability to recall teams in the area to help survivors, THAT IS THE PRIMARY MISSION of these local teams. The opening of Prime Base in order to assist survivors and to build a colony was, at best ignoring its primary mission to rebuild North America for the short term "I Feel Good About Myself" mission.

This is the failure of the module.

Flame Away!

[mikeo80]

Flame Away!

Not from me. In fact I'll put up a pair of flame retardant long johns for you.

I said the same basic thing in my previous post.

Once PB started operations, a recon of the area WAS in order. No problem there. Yes there are people suffering and dying....

To quote that great American Philosopher, Homer Simpson, "D'oh!!!!"

THIS IS PRIME BASE!! You do not have ANY true recon teams on board. At most, some Recon experience. Same with the helicopter rescue attempt. In RL, we saw just how DAMNED difficult that particular op can be.

(Here I will refer you to Desert One, the Iran rescue mission, and Mogadishu, and the offing of Bin Laden)

IF we follow canon time line, Big Bang is 1987, PB comes up to full on line status say early - mid 1991. If the MARS leader had any sense, even faced with Morrow captives, he would have referred the Base Commander to the nightmare of Desert One in Iran. MIND you, Desert One was attempted by troops who TRAINED for this kind of op. And they still FUBAR'ed

Now to get back on point. The Morrow commander, had he lived, should have been shot for extreme negligence. AS far as he knows, he IS TMP. (There may or may not be a PB2) He has to organize and implement the most dangerous, complicated, long term recovery mission in the history of the WORLD. Simple survival would dictate you do not bring trouble to your own doorstep!!

Let me get off of my soap box for now! Enough of my ranting and raving.

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

No complaints from me.

Stunningly dumb mismanagement. Let's see open up the uber top secret burn after reading primary (possibly sole) Headquarter as a refugee camp.

I guess it made for a plausible, though tragically dumb way to remove Prime Base and set up the game for the 150 year lapse.

BTW what the hell has Krell been doing for 150 years The had to know that was Prime Base. Nuke the village, then a Biowar weapon on your enemies state of the art facility staffed with PHDs of all stripes Kind wander off because suffering villages in wisconsin are more interesting

Dumb.

Another thing I dislike about the PB module is the failure to detail the Krell Warriors. There they were an organized force right after the war and capable of delivering a nuke. A hundred years later their spear chuckin abos Really

The whole module needs a re-write.

[mikeo80]

What the hell has Krell been doing for 150 years The had to know that was Prime Base. Nuke the village, then a Biowar weapon on your enemies state of the art facility staffed with PHDs of all stripes Kind wander off because suffering villages in wisconsin are more interesting

Army Sgt:

As I read the PB module, Krell was in deep sleep when PB was neutralized. According to the module, the next time Krell woke up, he sent a team to see what happened. They found the valley like Jurrasic Park and bailed on the mission. Krell had the operatives killed, and moved on, figuring PB was DEAD.

There are so many parts of that scenario that are WRONG.

1) IF Krell was as Brilliant and demented as hinted at in different modules, he HAD to know that the first team had killed, if not PB, something really really important. If Krell had as many followers and as much tech as hinted at, a nuke, bio, etc, he would have sent teams until he was SURE it was dead. Then strip the body.

2) The mutants in the PB module could not have mutated THAT fast for the second Krell team to find Jurrasic Park. Radioactivity, swamp, ok, maybe...

3) The mutants could not have evolved that fast for "today", i.e. BANG +150. Natural selection does not work THAT fast. Yes, man introduced all kinds of radioactivity into the bio-sphere, but still....Mini T-Rex Mini sauropods Mini velociraptors Even something that could (maybe) be edging toward intellegence Not in MY Morrow world.

4) If Krell knew that this was PB, Krell associates "today" would STILL be talking about the day they killed Morrow. No hint of that in any module. We Americans still talk about Picketts Charge at Gettysburgh, Washington crossing the Delaware, Francis Scott Key and the "Star Spangled Banner". Surely a prize THAT big would be still talked about. Inflated, maybe, but a kernel of truth in the story.

5) Krell had inside information about Morrow. IF we are talking about BANG + 150 years, and Morrow teams are coming up here and there, and they are starting to organize, Krell would have re-visited the PB area...This time no quarter until he has an answer...one way or another.

(I refer you to the modules Fall Back, Damocles, Operation Lucifer, Ruins of Chicago, and Bullets and Bluegrass. In each there are hints that TMP is trying to start itself.)

My $0.02

Mike

[Matt W]

"Krell caused the capture or destruction of several Morrow bases. He captured one intact and had himself frozen"

Consider the implications of the above quote. The exact number of Morrow Bases captured by Krell is at the discretion of the PD - but Krell doesn't really NEED Prime Base anymore. He has probably salvaged more resources than Prime Base and may even have control of "Alternate Prime"

[dragoon500ly]

Canon requires that Prime Base be knocked out, inserting any kind of common sense blows the module to pieces. So, how do we fix it

The simple fix is to have Soviet Intelligence observe the construction of Prime Base, and chalking up the ranch/children's hospice concept as simply a poor effort to camouflage the new American command base...a salvo of ICBMs solves the problem in typical massive overkill fashion. The damaged Prime Base computer is only able to broadcast a random code over the ELF broadcast system, which is the reason for the slow and haphazard wake up of the Project. For this purpose, I'd place "Prime Base" in the Snake River Valley in Idaho.

The Prime Base module now becomes the frozen Prime Deuce as well as the headquarters for the Atlantis Project. This deletes the flashback to too many Saturday afternoon Japanese monster movie marathons, deletes the Krell episode, deletes the incredibly stupid decision to open the base and "feel good about ourselves" mission and now the objective of the team is to locate Prime Deuce and reawaken it.

I'd still like to go with a fourth cylinder with MARS/Recon/Science teams for control of the local area. Perhaps a larger aviation section (has anybody noticed that Autogyros are used only in TM1-1 and never show up in any module). A fusion refueling facility in place of the HAZMAT in Support and an expanded Mission Annex tunnel facility.

As for Phoenix....I'd rather replace them with a large MARS Team, dedicated to the protection of Prime Deuce.

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