Project Artillery

[Matt W]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/03/iai_jumper_offered/

http://www.iai.co.il/34225-40145-en/Groups_SystemMissileandSpace_MLM_Products_PrecisionStrikingSystems.aspxbtl=1

An interesting system. It's not going to work with a 1989 wardate. But it might be present in a later campaign

[ArmySGT.]

I was kinda leaning toward.........

[Father Fletch]

Just my .02

But...why



I have to say at first read that this is more Twilight 2000 than Morrow Project. While the core book had missiles and heavy weapons they were restricted for the most part to the MARS 1 vehicles.
It is fun to speculate, but unfortunately a lot of MP talk seems to be more about hardware Pr0n than about what the mission would really need to succeed. More about kill tools than what the people and life in the 'pockylips landscape would be like for a team coming out of cold-sleep.
In my minds-eye things like working tanks and artillery are more the tools of Rich 5 and Krell armies, and the poor MP recon team has to use their smarts and connection with locals to succeed, not just MOARGUNZ.

[mikeo80]

I agree with you philosophy, Father Fletch.

However let's look at both ends of TMP timeline.

IF the project works as proposed, then it stands to reason that there would be some surviving military units.

IF you play the "canon" version, then 150+ years have passed, and something like the KFS has evolved out of the chaos.

In either case, our heros are going to be REALLY outgunned. Guile and stealth and civilian support are all great things.

But, sometimes you need a BIG STICK to force the demons back into their cages.

And that big stick comes in the form of artillery. I, personnaly, can see a few MARS units being armed with either the 105 mm or 155 mm US Army artillery. Both can be towed by V-150's. IF you buy the idea of a Morrow Air Force, both types of artillery can be air dropped.

To paraphrase:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...

Cause I AM the meanest SOB in the valley.

My $0.02

Mike

[Matt W]

But...why



I have to say at first read that this is more Twilight 2000 than Morrow Project. While the core book had missiles and heavy weapons they were restricted for the most part to the MARS 1 vehicles.
It is fun to speculate, but unfortunately a lot of MP talk seems to be more about hardware Pr0n than about what the mission would really need to succeed. More about kill tools than what the people and life in the 'pockylips landscape would be like for a team coming out of cold-sleep.
In my minds-eye things like working tanks and artillery are more the tools of Rich 5 and Krell armies, and the poor MP recon team has to use their smarts and connection with locals to succeed, not just MOARGUNZ.

I quite agree. And my proposal would be that the "8-pack of missiles" would substitute for the MARS-1 and its complement of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

After all, what is the MARS-ONE A command vehicle A mobile resuscitation unit Mobile Artilery

OTOH, you'd never give a MARS-ONE to a PC unit. But you might give 8 missiles to the players

[Gamer]

I quite agree. And my proposal would be that the "8-pack of missiles" would substitute for the MARS-1 and its complement of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

After all, what is the MARS-ONE A command vehicle A mobile resuscitation unit Mobile Artilery

OTOH, you'd never give a MARS-ONE to a PC unit. But you might give 8 missiles to the players

The heaviest artillery I will ever allow to the MP regardless of canon is mortars anything larger exceeds MP missions.
Their mission is never to outgun, they are NOT meant to be warlords.

What's next heavy naval assets
There is not a fine line here, just simple common sense.
An MP Air Force would at most to consist of this: http://www.802u.com/
anything more is too excessive.

[nuke11]

The heaviest artillery I will ever allow to the MP regardless of canon is mortars anything larger exceeds MP missions.
Their mission is never to outgun, they are NOT meant to be warlords.

What's next heavy naval assets
There is not a fine line here, just simple common sense.
An MP Air Force would at most to consist of this: http://www.802u.com/
anything more is too excessive.

I think if you are planning for aircraft there are a few more that fit the bill. Not overly powerful, but can provide the needed close air-support required by a team in need.

1. A-1 Skyraider
2. OV-10B/D Bronco
3. T-28D Trojan
4. IA-58 Pucara
5. PA-48 Enforcer
6. P-51D/H Mustang
7. F-51 Cavalier Mustang
8. AT-6B Texan
9. EMB-314 Super Tucano

There are others, but this covers the major ones.

[bobcat]

the MP teams are supposed to operate similar to special forces A-teams not armored divisions. ie. the biggest thing i give my PCs for hardware is an M202A3 if you can't bring it down with a four-pack of WP and/or HEAT rockets you should have already been running away.

[PapillonHeroes]

It is fun to speculate, but unfortunately a lot of MP talk seems to be more about hardware Pr0n than about what the mission would really need to succeed. More about kill tools than what the people and life in the 'pockylips landscape would be like for a team coming out of cold-sleep.

[ArmySGT.]

Liberation at Riverton - V-150 APC with M2HB (over 6 add XR-311)

Damocles - Commando Scout with 20mm Autocannon (over 6 players, add Commando Scout with 20mm A/C or XR-311)

Operation Lucifer - V-150 APC with M2HB

Ruins of Chicago - Commando Ranger APC with M2HB

Starnaman Incident - V150 with 81mm Mortar

Lonestar - Air Cushion Vehicles Quequod class laboratory, Flying Dutchman Mars ACV, Albatross Light Recon ACV.

Desert Search - V-150 with TOW launcher, Fast Attack Vehicle (FAV) with M174E4 automatic grenade launchers.

Prime Base - No equipment included. Continued from Desert Search or another module.

Bullets and Bluegrass - SK-5 ACV (Science One can be re-captured).

Final Watch - Commando Ranger (no pintle mount) (Mobile Command Post Variant).

Fall Back - V-150 with turreted 20mm, Commando Ranger APC

American Outback - Commando Ranger APC with turreted twin GPMGs.

[ArmySGT.]

M102 Howitzer, Towed, 105mm.

[ArmySGT.]

Name M102 Howitzer
Crew 6
Length 21 ft 10-1/2 in. (6.7 m)

Width 6 ft 4 in. (1.9 m)

Height 5 ft 2-3/4 in. (1.6 m)
Ground Clearance
Turning radius same as tractor
Max road speed Super highway ....45 mph Improved roads ...35 mph Cross country ... 10 mph
Max. towed load. N/a
Water Speed N/a
Fording depth same as tractor
Gradient same as tractor
Side slope same as tractor
Vertical obstacle N/a
Trench .5 M
Armor class
Armament 105 mm Rifled cannon
Ammunition None stored

M102 Howitzer.
Maximum range .................................................. .................................................. .. 11,500 meters
Designated prime movers .................................................. .............1-1/4 ton and 2-1/2 ton truck
(1) Is a lightweight, towed weapon, which has a very low silhouette when in the firing position.
(2) Can be airlifted, dropped by parachute, or towed into position.
(3) Employs a roller assembly and firing platform assembly permitting a 6400-mil capability.
(4) Has a variable recoil system which eliminates the need for a recoil pit.

Ammunition for your M102 howitzer is of the semi-fixed type. Most of these rounds have an adjustable propelling charge
for zone firing, and the complete round is loaded into the weapon as a unit. The High Explosive Plastic (HEP) and the
Target Practice (TP) rounds are exceptions and do not have adjustable charges. Semi-fixed ammunition is issued fuzed
for all projectiles except HE, and sometimes WP rounds. Draw separate fuzes for these rounds.

In Project use, the M102 Howitzer fulfills a defensive role protecting large scale assets like bases, depots, supply dumps, and refugee centers by forcing hostile groups far out of their effective range for small arms and light crew served weapons. Additionally the planners prepared for the howitzers to assist in civilian missions such as avalanche control and destroying ice dams preventing flooding issues. Illumination missions are prepared for to assist in dangerous, but timely rescue or recovery operations, in addition to support of MARS personnel disrupting hostile actors plans. Tactical CS is also considered as a method of turning refugees away from areas highly contaminated by radioactive fallout. The CS can be felt, whereas the harmful gamma rays are undetectable with proper meters.

[ArmySGT.]

Model. Abbreviation. Type. Use.

XM546* and M546* APERS-T Flechette-loaded, aluminum projectile Antipersonnel(effective in dense foliage) *Dispersion pattern for XM546 and M546 set on MA (muzzle action) and time.

M1, HE, High explosive-bursting.Antipersonnel,blast, mining

M60 H/HD Bursting, chemical mustard/distilled mustard Antipersonnel, persistent

M360 GB Bursting, chemical- sarin Antipersonnel, non-persistent

M327 HEP/HEP-T High explosive, bursting/high ex-plosive, bursting, tracer. Defeat armor (effective against concrete and timber targets).

M314 series-ILLUM Base ejection projectile, parachute candle. Illumination.

M60A3 Smoke,WP Bursting chemical. Screening, spotting incendiary.

M84A1 Smoke,HC Base-ejection projectile with canisters-for use with M548, M565, M577 series, or M762 fuzes. Screening/target identification,signaling.

M84B1 Smoke, HC/colored Base-ejection projectile with canisters for use with M501 series fuze only. Screening/target identification,signaling.

M444* ICM High-explosive bouncing grenades. Antipersonnel * Expect a higher submunition dud rate when M444 is fired at charges 6 and 7.

M67 TP/TP-T Inert projectile/inert projectile w/tracer. Training.

M548 HERA High explosive rocket assisted. Antipersonnel,blast, mining.

M629 Tactical,CS Base-ejection projectile w/CS canisters. Riot control.

M14 Dummy Completely inert round Training

[Gelrir]

I feel the 81mm-armed V150 is pretty much as artillery-ish as the Project needs to get. It can serve as a expedient APC/cargo vehicle, and it uses tires and spares common to other Project vehicles.

If you use an M102 howitzer, and are running around with a single gun, you'll need 6 to 8 people for crew; so that's one vehicle (might be a V150). If you want to take a lot of different kinds of ammunition, and a sufficient amount of ammunition to be useful, there'll be at least one vehicle hauling ammo. Projectiles weigh 18 to 20 kg each; powder charges are 7 kg; let's say 25 kg per round. 200 rounds is thus 5 tons: so your gun needs a 5 or 10 ton truck. If you're operating halfway across the country from your ammo supply point, you'll probably bring several trucks of ammo. You might also need some security around your gun when it's firing ... in case someone sneaks up on foot behind you. So another team of "infantry" comes along, with some vehicle. And, do you stash caches of 105mm ammo all over the United States Which ... could have been caches of stuff for re-building the country, not blowing it up.

A few howitzers aren't much use across a continent; a lot of howitzers makes a very odd Morrow Project. I think some MARS mortar teams, TOW teams and so forth, plus the MARS-One, should be sufficient for most purposes. Of course, it's your Project -- run your game as you see fit, and to entertain yourself and your players!

[hyppoleonida]

Don't know where did you find these...

But surely both the new IAI autonomous missile system that this kind of ultralight flying tank you came across are very nice additions to the arsenal of a MP Team, maybe the AT-802U is more adequate for a Recon Team and the Jumper is more likely to support a MARS Team but in every other way, IMHO they shoud belong to a MP Team, since the mission requires survivability in the (presumably) hostile environment of post-catastrophe Earth, more so since the original Mission Directive foresaw the resurrection of the teams in the immediate aftermath of an apocalyptic conflict, not 150 years later, as happens in Morrow Project.

Since the bolthole of each team would have to be equipped with the best that was available at the time of the team's hibernation, considering that - in all likelihood - the average team will have exhausted most of its hi-tech resources in a relatively short time, unless that is, they know how to find somewhere a hidden storage (which also in the official scenarios is more often than not only a wishful proposition), I do not see anything wrong in equipping a team with a little 'big stick', especially if is semi-autonomous, portable and in any case with a (necessarily) limited endurance.

I don't avocate in any way the presence of heavy armor or - as some have suggested jokingly (but are we so sure of it) - naval vessels, since they are outside the mission's purpose and above all, cool as they may seem at first, they are a real logistical nightmares in terms of resources and maintenance on the medium/long distance, though - as suggested by the examples already in the historic manual TM 1-1 of the 80s - there's sufficient stuff around that can fit perfectly to the need of small units, like MP Teams are.

After all, even with the military planners, there has always been the need to equip and arm elite and/or special forces units with incospicous means to transport and use in air, land and sea, beginning with the modified trucks of the 8th Army's Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII, to the armed (and sometime armored) off-road, air-droppable light vehicles of today.

Just as an example, let's take the case of the AT802U; a thing like that you can see even in the official scenarios, when it comes to the air forces of the KFS and others adversaries of the Project: fixed-wing propeller-driven aircrafts instead of the more expensive and resource-hungry jet-fighter, 'cause they're notoriously less costly to fly, arm and mantain.

My favorite in this regard remain the Skydiver A-1, the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt, by virtue of their relative simplicity, autonomy, load bearing capacity and availability, as even today there are around hundreds of specimens both original and replicas and it is possible that they can survive or be recovered even after a disaster such as that provided in the Morrow Project background.